Is there any sports athlete who is better than Sir Don?

[PlainSimpleJoel]

So who would it be?

Statistically, Charles Davis analysed the statistics for several prominent sportsmen by comparing the number of standard deviations that they stand above the mean for their sport. And it found that the late Sir Donald Bradman, was better than Pele, Ty Cobb, Jack Nicklaus and Michael Jordan.

So was anyone better than the late Sir Donald Bradman, who scored 29 centuries in only 80 innings. Only seven other players have score more centuries and most of them are modern players, and have player over 150 innings each. Bradman played the game during the 1930's. He ended up with a batting average of 99.94 (which is considered to be greatest achievement in any major sport). According to the statistics, a basketball player would need to average 43 points per game, and a baseball player would need to have an batting average of 0.392

So is there anyone in sports history could be said to be better than Bradman?

 

[JNG]

You've made a strong case. However, it's uncomfortable that no value would be given to a longer career...I guess in the extreme example, a guy who participated once and in that appearance technically achieved 100% at some aspect of a game can't be compared to a long, win-filled career by even a middling player who made a difference.

Then again, I always find the debates get really interesting when one factors in the kind of achievements that aren't as easily measured in numbers.

Take Joe Montana. By the numbers, a very good quarterback, but not one of the elite in that regard. And yet...who was the guy who came through in a clinch? Who was the guy who teammates say was the reason for *their* success? Who played through pain to get some of those numbers on the board in the first place?

When it gets hard to measure, you get past the statistics and it can be inspiring to take stock as best one can of other dimensions in sports performance.

 

[Captain Ice]

^Agreed.

I'd have to submit Ted Williams and Rogers Hornsby for consideration here.

A good look at Walter "Big Train" Johnson and Sandy Koufax would seem to be in order as well.

 

[tomalak301]

When I first read this thread, the first guy that jumped to mind was Tiger Woods. Just what he did at this year's US Open proved what kind of athlete he was. He's going to pass Jack's record, and he's going to be back stronger than ever. That's probably the scary thing when you're talking about the rest of the field.

 

[Rygel XIX]

Wayne Gretzky? How many offensive records does he hold?
As a matter of fact, I think he holds a record how many records he holds...

 

[DWF]

Paavo Nurmi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paavo_Nurmi

Sergey Bubka

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Bubka

 

[Garak]

WAYNE GRETZKY.

50 goals in 38 games.

0.61 goals/game

1.32 assists/game

1.93 points/game

 

[PlainSimpleJoel]

You've made a strong case. However, it's uncomfortable that no value would be given to a longer career...I guess in the extreme example, a guy who participated once and in that appearance technically achieved 100% at some aspect of a game can't be compared to a long, win-filled career by even a middling player who made a difference.

Sir Don played over 20 year test career for Australia.

Then again, I always find the debates get really interesting when one factors in the kind of achievements that aren't as easily measured in numbers.

that is true, but you can compare the best in one sport, and see how far the next is. In cricket Bradman is the only play to average over 62 runs per innings after playing at least 30 tests. His average was 99.94

I'd have to submit Ted Williams and Rogers Hornsby for consideration here.

A good look at Walter "Big Train" Johnson and Sandy Koufax would seem to be in order as well.

Did any of these players have a batting average of .392 over their career? Cobb had an average of .367

When I first read this thread, the first guy that jumped to mind was Tiger Woods. Just what he did at this year's US Open proved what kind of athlete he was. He's going to pass Jack's record, and he's going to be back stronger than ever. That's probably the scary thing when you're talking about the rest of the field.

Woods is still playing, so you can't judge him at the moment.

WAYNE GRETZKY.

50 goals in 38 games.

894 goals in 1487 games right? What was the next best?

I think Bradman is still better.

 

[RAMA]

So who would it be?

Statistically, Charles Davis analysed the statistics for several prominent sportsmen by comparing the number of standard deviations that they stand above the mean for their sport. And it found that the late Sir Donald Bradman, was better than Pele, Ty Cobb, Jack Nicklaus and Michael Jordan.

So was anyone better than the late Sir Donald Bradman, who scored 29 centuries in only 80 innings. Only seven other players have score more centuries and most of them are modern players, and have player over 150 innings each. Bradman played the game during the 1930's. He ended up with a batting average of 99.94 (which is considered to be greatest achievement in any major sport). According to the statistics, a basketball player would need to average 43 points per game, and a baseball player would need to have an batting average of 0.392

So is there anyone in sports history could be said to be better than Bradman?

Stats are important, but some of the greatest athletes are hard quantify in this sytem, examples:

Dana Torres and Lance Armstrong. Also Carl Lewis (65 CONSECUTIVE long jump meet wins over 10 years, 9 olympic medals), Jackie Joyner Kersee, etc.

RAMA

 

[Garak]

WAYNE GRETZKY.

50 goals in 38 games.

894 goals in 1487 games right? What was the next best?

I think Bradman is still better.

Take a look at this to see how dominant he was. Under the all time NHL leaders in points you'll see that he has almost 1000 more points than the guy who's number 2 on that list, despite playing almost 300 fewer games. He has more assists than anyone has points.

The benchmark for a great offensive player in the NHL is being able to put up a point per game. Only so many people actually do it every year, but Gretzky was putting up almost 2 points per game for his career. There are 82 games in the regular season and he holds the record for most points in a season, 215. It's simply astonishing what he's accomplished.

 

[JM1776]

Two words: Bjorn Borg.

He participated in 27 Grand Slam singles tournaments, and reached the finals in fifteen of them (56%), winning eleven (41%). He played the French Open only eight times ... and was champion on six occasions. People have touted, rightly, Nadal's astonishing feat of winning at Roland Garros and Wimbledon in the same year. Well, in an era when the grass was faster and the clay slower, Borg did it three times. There's little question that, when viewed objectively (and bearing in mind that the Australian Open was not considered a major during his era), his accomplishments easily outstrip those of Federer and Sampras. Only Laver can really rival him.

He may well be the greatest athlete of all time.

 

[Captain Ice]

Elim,

Johnson and Koufax aren't hitters. Neither is mentioned at all for their batting prowess. I'm not even certain if Johnson ever had an at-bat in a regular season game.

You said you were looking for the best player, not the best hitter.

 

[Starbreaker]

Elim,

Johnson and Koufax aren't hitters. Neither is mentioned at all for their batting prowess. I'm not even certain if Johnson ever had an at-bat in a regular season game.

You said you were looking for the best player, not the best hitter.

Johnson had a career batting average of .235 over 2,324 at bats.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

They mentioned Michael Jordan, but I wouldn't consider him the best Basketball player. Wilt Chamberlain had a season where he averaged 50.4 ppg and 25.7 rpg. Granted, he played a lot of minutes and had a lot of shots (he averaged 48.5 minutes per game, which itself is pretty good, since a game is only 48 minutes long), but he also shot above 50% from the field.

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

Babe Ruth - Most people saw him as a hitter but he was a dominant pitcher as well. He was also a fairly well known...err drinker. Which can't help. But he also globalized baseball AND changed the dynamics of the game.

Lance Armstrong is another. Seriously, winning THAT many Tour de Frances is huge.

 

[Chaos Descending]

They mentioned Michael Jordan, but I wouldn't consider him the best Basketball player. Wilt Chamberlain had a season where he averaged 50.4 ppg and 25.7 rpg. Granted, he played a lot of minutes and had a lot of shots (he averaged 48.5 minutes per game, which itself is pretty good, since a game is only 48 minutes long), but he also shot above 50% from the field.

One thing I like to point out about Wilt Chamberlain is that he kicked ass in an environment in which the NBA tended to change the rules to his detriment for scoring whereas Michael Jordan played in an environment in which the NBA tended to change the rules to the benefit of his scoring.

When you see this truth, Wilt the Stilt looks even more impressive compared to Air Jordan.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Yeah, I was going to point out that as well. I can think of at least three rules implemented in the NBA to hurt Wilt Chamberlain. You would also have to seriously hack at him to get called for a foul. With Michael Jordan, they moved the 3-point line closer (which helped him score) and called touch fouls more readily, giving him more free throws.

 

[Captain Ice]

Also notable is the fact that he is the ONLY NBA player ever to score 100 points in one game.

(March 2, 1962. Hershey, PA. Philadelphia Warriors vs New York Knicks)
Another thing to note is that on a list of all the NBA games where one player has scored 60 or more points, Michael Jordan's name appears 5 times. Chamberlain's appears 32 times on that same list.

 

[voggmo]

Not exactly what one would term an athlete, but Regarding statistics, here's a few semi interesting ones. Richard Petty won 200 races, Pearson was 2nd with 115. They did meet however 19 times neck & neck on last lap, Pearson won more of the 19. Forget exact numbers.

& 2 cats from Iceland have won World's strongest man competition 4 times each.

ChampionTimes Jón Páll Sigmarsson4 Magnús Ver Magnússon4 Mariusz Pudzianowski4

Pudzianowski from Poland almost won 5, but was beat by 1 second by an American. He was tossed for steroids for 1 year, but will likely win 5 sooner or later.

 

[Captain Ice]

If you're going to include NASCAR, you need to mention "The Intimidator" (Dale Earnhardt) as well. Most drivers asked about him will tell you that his car was the LAST thing they wanted to see in their rearview mirror if they were leading a race. He ties Petty for Championships, is in the top ten for victories, and is the only driver to ever win Rookie of the Year and Champion in successive years.

Also, you need to note that Pearson did that while only competing in about half the races each season for almost ten years since his owner would not enter any short track races.