conspiracy wackos sue against LHCs artificial black hole

[TheMasterOfOrion]

http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/geekend/?p=1260

The Swiss are famously neutral on nearly every major public issue of the day, except one: They really don’t want the world to collapse into an artificial black hole or convert into an uninhabitable mass of exotic matter.

That’s why the Swiss government is suing to halt the operation of the largest, most complex scientific instrument ever built: the Large Hadron Collider (LHC), which was paid for and housed in part by the Swiss.

maybe they're onto something with lawsuit

or maybe they are the type of people who would have told Columbus not to sail because there's a chance he could fall off one of the corners of our flat earth ?

This new atom smashing lab is in Europe

The US already has a smaller version

another Accelerator lab
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermilab
"located in Batavia near Chicago, Illinois, is a U.S. Department of Energy national laboratory specializing in high-energy particle physics "

 

[All Seeing Eye]

I think they need to read up about physics, as far as I can remember any artificial black holes created are microscopic and blink back out of existance within miiliseconds.

 

[anti-matter]

Probably isn't a bad idea for all the eggheads to take a 2nd look at this. Just because you can do something thanks to tech breakthroughs doesn't mean it 's always a good idea.

 

[anais]

If anyone can find a Swiss source on this, I'd like to see it. I couldn't. If the Swiss worry, I worry.

A lawsuit has been filed on this matter in Hawaii though, but not by the Swiss gov.

 

[Lindley]

They really should wait until after 2012 to turn the thing on. There's science, and then there's tempting fate, y'know?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Probably isn't a bad idea for all the eggheads to take a 2nd look at this. Just because you can do something thanks to tech breakthroughs doesn't mean it 's always a good idea.

Yep. There's more to this than the armchair physicists want to believe.

That "microscopic black holes" behave in the way described above is hypothetical.

 

[Lindley]

I'm trying to remember which book series it was where the Earth was rendered unstable by a micro-black-hole falling into the core. Hyperion?

 

[JGordon]

Probably isn't a bad idea for all the eggheads to take a 2nd look at this. Just because you can do something thanks to tech breakthroughs doesn't mean it 's always a good idea.

They have, in fact, taken first, second, and third looks at this. I believe at least three different reports have been filed by different groups of scientist (including one that, I believe, was totally independent of any involvement in the LHC) over the last decade about potential dangers of the LHC. All three reports have indicated that there is no "danger to the earth" from the LHC.

Additionally, the theoretical microscopic black holes are only considered to have a small chance of materializing in the LHC. And the same subset of physics that predicts their creation is the one that predicts they will evaporate instantaneously. Essentially, if you accept the physics that says they might be created, you have to accept the physics that says they will evaporate. You can't have one without the other, they are all a part of the same equation.

And it was Hyperion where the earth was consumed by a "black hole." It was humanity's first attempt at creating "farcasters" in Kiev that lead to the "big mistake."

SPOILERS BELOW FOR HYPERION!!!!
!
!
But in Fall of Hyperion it came out that the "big mistake" was engineered by the AIs, and that earth hadn't actually been destroyed or turned into a black hole. Instead it had been "farcast" to a different solar system, I believe one located in the Magellenic cloud. The AIs deemed they needed to get humanity off of earth in order to keep them from becoming dangerous.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I'm trying to remember which book series it was where the Earth was rendered unstable by a micro-black-hole falling into the core. Hyperion?

David Brin's Earth is also built around the premise.

About the Large Hadron Collider, there's also the belief that it will create strange matter, and the strange matter will turn everything it touches into strange matter. The thing is, there's no proof that strange matter even exists.

 

[Arrqh]

About the Large Hadron Collider, there's also the belief that it will create strange matter, and the strange matter will turn everything it touches into strange matter. The thing is, there's no proof that strange matter even exists.

Not to mention that higher energy collisions then what will happen in LHC occur in Earth's upper atmosphere all the time.

Granted, in those collisions, any resulting stuff is going to have a huge momentum and likely get flung way out into space... but even so, the point is that these sorts of interactions do occur in nature. The only difference at LHC is that it's in a contained environment where it can be studied, as opposed to cosmic rays striking the atmosphere.

 

[M'Sharak]

If anyone can find a Swiss source on this, I'd like to see it. I couldn't. If the Swiss worry, I worry.

A lawsuit has been filed on this matter in Hawaii though, but not by the Swiss gov.

That would be the one described in this article? I can't seem to find anything about a Swiss lawsuit or Swiss government involvement in a lawsuit against CERN or any of the other parties.

I do seem to recall some dubious claims and "news" items surfacing before which cited TechRepublic as a source, though.

 

[anais]

That would be the one described in this article?

Yeah that's the one I heard about.

I do seem to recall some dubious claims and "news" items surfacing before which cited TechRepublic as a source, though.

The Swiss government, a couple of conspiracy nuts, what's the difference?

On a serious note truth is stranger than fiction, who knows what'll happen. The top scientists on this project have the Nobel Prize coming to them if it delivers as they believe it will. That's quite a motivation to drive things forward regardless of safety. If it fails, we'll all be dead, right?

 

[Noname Given]

New technology and research is always frightening for some people - Hell before the Trinity A-Bomb test, a few scientists theorized that setting off such a bomb would ignite all the hydrogen in the Earth's atmosphere; and leave the Earth a dead burnt out cinder in space.

Yes, it's all theoretical at this point; but most theories are based on years of observable effects, etc.

I think the Swiss are over-reacting; but you also never know in that they could be right. There's always risk when you try something you've never done before; or put any theory to a practical test.

 

[The Squire of Gothos]

Something along those lines featured as the plot of the film revival of cult British SF series, Doomwatch.

 

[S. Gomez]

Funny thing, I just finished reading the Hyperion series this morning. Interesting timing...

 

[Cicero]

I'm usually on the side of anything in the name of science, but I think it's probably a good idea to look at this situation very carefully before deciding whether to continue. Mistakes have been made - which have cost lives - by our most brilliant minds using our best understanding. It's one thing to sail over the edge of the world. It's quite another to risk our entire world, even against a very, very small chance.

If either of the supposed possibilities occurs, we all will die.

 

[Hitman]

Something being possible doesn't mean it will happen.

 

[Admiral_Young]

There was a physist who was discussing this along with the law suit that he either started or is a part of on Coast To Coast Am, talk about coiencdence I was going to post a thread on this topic this morning after listening to the show and was pleased to see that there is already one. I'm sort of divided about the whole issue. On the one hand I can understand the scientists at CERN wanting to go through with this experiment but I can see why there would be opposistion as well and wanting to make sure this was absolutely safe before they brought the collider online. Its a scary situation to contemplate the possibities that COULD go wrong should something happen even in a controlled situation.

 

[farmkid]

If we wait until we know it's absolutely safe to turn it on, it will never be turned on. The only way we can know for sure it is absolutely safe is to turn it on and see what happens. Personally, I think that the fact these collisions happen frequently in the upper atmosphere with no planet destroying effects is a good indication that it is safe.

 

[PurpleBuddha]

Probably isn't a bad idea for all the eggheads to take a 2nd look at this. Just because you can do something thanks to tech breakthroughs doesn't mean it 's always a good idea.

Yep. There's more to this than the armchair physicists want to believe...

So are you saying we should leave it to the experts then who say there is nothing to worry about?

On a side not, here is an interesting article about results from a Swiss team's study that say we probably wouldn't even be able to detect the effect of a micro black hole if it hit the earth.

http://www.universetoday.com/2008/02/17/what-would-happen-if-a-small-black-hole-hit-the-earth/