Who was Spock's XO?

[Sketcher]

In The Wrath of Khan, before Kirk takes command, does anyone know who Spock's first officer was supposed to be? Saavik seemed like she was still very much in training, so I doubt it was her. My other thought was Sulu, but he was only temporarily assigned to the Enterprise.

 

[Ricky Spanish]

I don’t think they honestly thought about it. Hard to see anyone that would qualify.

 

[CampBOO!]

Scotty likely. Chekov was gone. Sulu was set to Captain the Excelsior (if you take the deleted scenes into account) so was only a short timer. It could be Uhura or Scotty but it seems that he has more experience.

Or some unseen officer on leave.

 

[drt]

I suppose maybe Scotty, since only he and maybe McCoy seemed to be actually assigned to Enterprise.

But who knows, TWOK has a fair amount of refrigerator logic.

edit: ninja'd by @Campe - to one of his points, I think Uhura was Kirk's attaché.

 

[tharpdevenport]

How long was Spock's commission? Could it be no one was assigned yet.

 

[CovePhanTom]

Uhura was on her way to the Enterprise with Kirk. It is implied she is no longer assigned there either, except for the training mission.

Scotty is clearly still the chief engineer, and it would be extremely difficult to hold that role and be XO at the same time.

I think the most logical choice is Saavik. Yes, she is in training of some sort, but it's training for command. She is already a lieutenant, not a raw cadet. And she is taking the Kobayashi Maru, which is a command fitness test. I think it makes sense she would be taking that after having recently been promoted to first officer.

 

[Fire(BOO!)]

Uhura was on her way to the Enterprise with Kirk. It is implied she is no longer assigned there either, except for the training mission.

Scotty is clearly still the chief engineer, and it would be extremely difficult to hold that role and be XO at the same time.

I think the most logical choice is Saavik. Yes, she is in training of some sort, but it's training for command. She is already a lieutenant, not a raw cadet. And she is taking the Kobayashi Maru, which is a command fitness test. I think it makes sense she would be taking that after having recently been promoted to first officer.

We should remember that Saavik was still in the Academy regardless, though. I kinda doubt that Starfleet would place even a fourth year cadet in such a high position on the ship, even if they were on a training mission before the Khan incident occurred.

The impression I get from the final cut of TWOK is that Saavik was training directly under Spock in the Science Officer and Command positions, but didn't have an official position on Enterprise's senior crew.

 

[tharpdevenport]

Come to think of it, Spock and Starfleet protocol -- wouldn't he want Saavik to have taken the test before becoming the second in command? Just thinking aloud.

 

[CovePhanTom]

We should remember that Saavik was still in the Academy regardless, though. I kinda doubt that Starfleet would place even a fourth year cadet in such a high position on the ship, even if they were on a training mission before the Khan incident occurred.

The impression I get from the final cut of TWOK is that Saavik was training directly under Spock in the Science Officer and Command positions, but didn't have an official position on Enterprise's senior crew.

Who says that Saavik was still in the Academy? I don't recall anything from the film that states that. And in the next film, which takes place only a short time after the end of TWOK, she is assigned to the Grissom. She hasn't gone back to the Academy. Yes, she was wearing a red undershirt with her uniform, but I think that was more a costuming error than anything else, because they did the same with Valeris in TUC who is specifically stated in dialogue to have graduated from the Academy.

Plus, Saavik was a full lieutenant. That means she would have had to pass from cadet/midshipman to ensign to lieutenant j.g. to full lieutenant, all while still attending Starfleet Academy. I find that unlikely.

 

[Fire(BOO!)]

Who says that Saavik was still in the Academy? I don't recall anything from the film that states that. And in the next film, which takes place only a short time after the end of TWOK, she is assigned to the Grissom. She hasn't gone back to the Academy. Yes, she was wearing a red undershirt with her uniform, but I think that was more a costuming error than anything else, because they did the same with Valeris in TUC who is specifically stated in dialogue to have graduated from the Academy.

Plus, Saavik was a full lieutenant. That means she would have had to pass from cadet/midshipman to ensign to lieutenant j.g. to full lieutenant, all while still attending Starfleet Academy. I find that unlikely.

Why would she still be taking exams like the Kobayashi Maru if she wasn't still attending the Academy? Plus, she's treated like another trainee throughout the film.

 

[CovePhanTom]

Why would she still be taking exams like the Kobayashi Maru if she wasn't still attending the Academy? Plus, she's treated like another trainee throughout the film.

Because the Kobayshi Maru is not a standard Starfleet exam that everyone takes. It is, in my impression, specifically taken later by those who are on a path heading toward command. Much like we later see Troi take the bridge officers test. My opinion is that she was serving under Spock and had been selected as his first officer and, therefore, then went to take the test. But the biggest thing to me is that someone who has not yet graduated from the academy is not going to be a lieutenant.

 

[Fire(BOO!)]

Because the Kobayshi Maru is not a standard Starfleet exam that everyone takes. It is, in my impression, specifically taken later by those who are on a path heading toward command. Much like we later see Troi take the bridge officers test. My opinion is that she was serving under Spock and had been selected as his first officer and, therefore, then went to take the test. But the biggest thing to me is that someone who has not yet graduated from the academy is not going to be a lieutenant.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. The way it appears to me is that it's a Command track "final exam" of sorts for senior-year students at the Academy, rather than the qualifying Bridge Officer exam for commissioned officers we see Troi taking.

I view the Lieutenant rank as a costuming mistake, because that doesn't make much sense. That is, unless Saavik was such an exemplary student that she qualified for a commission just prior to graduation. But, such mistakes are replete throughout the franchise, so I could be head-canoning to paper over Yet Another Trek Inconsistency...

 

[CovePhanTom]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. The way it appears to me is that it's a Command track "final exam" of sorts for senior-year students at the Academy, rather than the qualifying Bridge Officer exam for commissioned officers we see Troi taking.

I view the Lieutenant rank as a costuming mistake, because that doesn't make much sense. That is, unless Saavik was such an exemplary student that she qualified for a commission just prior to graduation. But, such mistakes are replete throughout the franchise, so I could be head-canoning to paper over Yet Another Trek Inconsistency...

She is referred to as "lieutenant" in the dialogue throughout the film.

 

[Fire(BOO!)]

She is referred to as "lieutenant" in the dialogue throughout the film.

I know, and even that doesn't seem consistent with the way she's portrayed in the movie. She seems too green to be a full Lieutenant.

 

[Ricky Spanish]

First Officer on a Constitution-class starship, even on ostensibly a training cruise, would be an awful big job for a lieutenant who is fresh out of the Academy.

 

[The Gatekeeper]

IIRC, George Takei claimed in his autobiography Sulu was XO in TWOK, for whatever that's worth.

 

[publiusr]

I could see him replacing an unknown XO, which I could see as a Cartwright/Morrow plant:

“Spock is by-the-book…he will be no problem. Thanks for watching over him for us. Sulu will take Excelsior…Styles is loyal but a dandy—untested. Saavik will take your place.

With Kirk’s troublesome crew broken up with no more of their exploration foolishness, we can return to serious matters—welcome to Project Praxis.”

 

[drt]

IIRC, George Takei claimed in his autobiography Sulu was XO in TWOK, for whatever that's worth.

The conversation in the travel pod seems clear that he hasn't been on Enterprise recently, but I suppose XO in addition to helmsman could have been his assignment for the training cruise.

Honestly, the movie is all over the place with regard to what's happening with the TOS crew. At the end of the Kobayashi Maru test, McCoy (who still seems to be Enterprise's CMO) has dialog indicateing they're training a new crew specifically for Enterprise, which rules her out of being a full-time training vessel - and the presence of most of the TOS characters for the Kobayashi Maru test would imply that they are intended to be part of this new crew, otherwise, why would they even be there? (Although, I suppose they could have partaken in the test to familiarize themselves with Savvik and other cadets as they'd only been temporarily assigned to Enterprise for the training cruise, but if that's the case, it seems odd that Chekov is the only one that actually had a real job at that moment.) Spock is captain for the training cruise, but his dialog states he is content being a teacher in command of a training cruise, which makes it seem like he's not interested in commanding a future deployment, in which case you'd think Enterprise's next actual captain should be there.

 

[tharpdevenport]

Maybe in George's mind he was XO, long after-the-fact.

 

[Ricky Spanish]

Just one of those things there’s no good answer for.

I’m sure George will be the XO when they eventually remake TWoK. Brought to you by Terry Matalas.