Evidence of SNW being a possible alternate timeline from TOS

[Ovation]

If tos no longer looks like it did than that means there was a change due to time travel interference. Right?

I don’t view it that way, but if it helps…

Temporal Cold War.

Sure. Again, if it helps…

That's just way too complicated in my opinion. I'm still partial to my idea that only Cage looked like SNW aesthetics (due to the crews' minds being messed with from Rigel VII, we're seeing the action from their perspective where it's not entirely accurate), and there just was a refit of the Enterprise (and maybe other Constitution class ships) between SNW and TOS. Probably for the galactic barrier mission; as I mentioned before maybe all that fancy tech on the SNW Enterprise would've blown up outright and "retro" tech had to be installed and they just left it that way after WNMHGB.

Ok. I prefer my own conjecture, but I prefer even more to just take the shows and movies on their own terms. I was addressing the topic of the thread, not trying to provide a definitive answer. I don’t subscribe to the alternate timeline perspective in any case (Kelvinverse excepted).

 

[BillJ]

That's just way too complicated in my opinion.

What’s complicated about it? Seems pretty straightforward.

 

[Nerys Myk]

What’s complicated about it? Seems pretty straightforward.

Indeed. Much less so than mind tricks and retro-refits

 

[cooleddie74]

To paraphrase the "God" of Sha-Ka-Ree, "one timeline, many faces."

 

[fireproof78]

Sure. Again, if it helps…

I don't feel the need to do so, because I would rather take it on it's own terms, but not everyone is, so if I have to do the mental calculations then I have a built in, extremely convenient excuse in a sacred Berman level text that can easily explain pretty much everything that is complained about with the visuals.

It's painfully easy and I say that as I chronic overthinker.

To paraphrase the "God" of Sha-Ka-Ree, "one timeline, many faces."

That's why "God's" name is Art.

 

[Starflight]

My headcanon is that the episodes I like are in one timeline and the episodes I don't like are all in another, and I'm not even joking.

 

[cooleddie74]

That's why "God's" name is Art.

There's a Bull and Night Court joke in there that is SOOOOOOOOOOOOO perfect.

 

[fireproof78]

There's a Bull and Night Court joke in there that is SOOOOOOOOOOOOO perfect.

I'm so proud of you!

 

[cooleddie74]

If I hadn't noticed that reference I'd never live down the shame.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Im a moviegoer. Box office is not hard to grasp. The fact that movies that degrade or make fools out of the male characters are no longer working. Its not. The new DC movie universe is not off to a great start and the supergirl movie certainly didn't help.

Look at shows like voyager. Captain Janeway was a strong female lead. The show itself never degraded or chastised the male co star characters to prove she was great. Movies and TV shows are no longer written thst way. They are writing for an agenda now. Its painfully obvious. Kathleen Kennedy tried to refrain star wars by talking up that it was for women. So we got ridiculous installments like TLJ were all the male characters Luke included looked like fools. Star Wars just its butt kicked by independent movies made by YouTubers. You dont have to be in the movie industry to see that the trajectory that long time properties like star trek, star wars and superhero films are sinking fast because of how they treat make characters and male fans. So again im glad Akiva is gone. He certainly would have wrecked Kirk if he.wwre allowed to showrun a whole show on Kirk and his 5 year mission.

Holy Male Fragility, Batman!

Also, f***ing hilarious that everyone pointed out that article you shared didn't support your claims, so instead of conceding and admitting fault, you just ignore it and cry about perceived slights to the human male characters.

"OH NO MILLY POINTED OUT THAT A BUNCH OF MEN COMPARED HER TO A CAVEMAN, THOSE POOR MEN DIDN'T DESERVE TO BE CALLED OUT!"

Why don't you just man up?

 

[Detached Nacelle]

I remember once, back in the day when ENT was the whipping boy and accused of disgracing and destroying the franchise, that people claimed it couldn't be in the same timeline as TOS because Captain Hernandez is a woman.

The whole notions of 'not used to seeing women on the bridge' 'how could the boys at headquarters send me a female yeoman' 'women can't be captains' was being quite firmly defended as canonical plot points and not just a relic of the era the show was made in.

Removing outdated 60s attitudes from TOS is a good thing and given their speech about overcoming bigotry they gave to Lincoln just makes it more in keeping with its own philosophy.

Just like ignoring how the 90s were scared of same sex couples. There were people that even claimed the transporter had 'cured' homosexuality.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Oh, I definitely remember very shortly after ENT was cancelled there were fans who wanted to give Berman "credit" for keeping the gays out of Star Trek. Even then, J.J. Abrams seemed to stick to a lot of the rhetoric Berman spouted about how he didn't just wanna stick a token gay couple in the background holding hands. That there would need to be a story reason. A very executive producer answer to not wanting to commit but also not offend!

 

[The Wormhole]

there just was a refit of the Enterprise (and maybe other Constitution class ships) between SNW and TOS. Probably for the galactic barrier mission; as I mentioned before maybe all that fancy tech on the SNW Enterprise would've blown up outright and "retro" tech had to be installed and they just left it that way after WNMHGB.

Even if we accept the premise that the Enterprise was refitted with intentionally retro technology for the galactic barrier mission, why would the other Constitution ships be similarly retrofitted? They weren't going to the galactic barrier, why do they need retro technology?

 

[Campe]

I’ve always been fine with the changes being a visual shift based on sixty years between episodes. If my brain ever really needs an in universe reason (never really happens) then I say it’s because of all of the time travel shenanigans we’ve seen over the past sixty years. Events of TOS episodes happen. They just might look a little different.

 

[Mudd]

Akivas comments on "past captains" having toxic masculinity is all I needed to hear to convince me he was the wrong guy to head a show that has Captain Kirk as the lead character.

That kind of focus on something trivial that offended you explains a lot of why your opinions on this subject are so completely wrong.

 

[TRON JA307020]

That kind of focus on something trivial that offended you explains a lot of why your opinions on this subject are so completely wrong.

Franchises are failing left and right. Dr. Who, Star Trek, Star Wars etc. If the past source material isnt respected the result is fan backlash and ultimately failure.

If these creators dont like the source material just reboot it instead of making changes to the original story they didn't like and pass it off as the same universe.

 

[Campe]

I assure you most people outside of the most engaged members of fanbases don’t truly care about respecting past source material. What they want is easily accessible entertainment. Shows like Doctor Who and Star Trek have a deep history that is wonderful but daunting for potential new fans.

Maybe it’s time for something completely different.

I love Star Trek and Star Wars but in some cases, I feel like I continue to watch them out of obligation. I have far more interest in other shows, not necessarily sci-fi, that tell compelling character and story arcs, not those that just tick boxes for the long time fans of mammoth franchises.

Edited for clarity.

 

[fireproof78]

Yes, we need to move past the fragile "respect the material" idea.

 

[cooleddie74]

TOS barely respected its own material, and TNG retconned a good bit of its early episode world building and in some cases before the end of the first season. "Respect the material" would be nice if the creators themselves had lived by that edict.

 

[Yistaan]

Franchises are failing left and right. Dr. Who, Star Trek, Star Wars etc. If the past source material isnt respected the result is fan backlash and ultimately failure.

If these creators dont like the source material just reboot it instead of making changes to the original story they didn't like and pass it off as the same universe.

Only SW of the 3 franchises you mentioned had a full reboot that decanonized movies and tv shows (Ewok movies, Clone Wars 2003 show, Droids and Ewoks cartoons).

The other 2 have actually acknowledged the source material, and "disrespect" is a VERY vague term in that manner. Literally the last Dr. Who episode featured Omega who hadn't shown up in like 30 plus years. Starfleet Academy literally had an entire episode devoted to DS9.

And even before SW's reboot, Attack of the Clones was badly received. You're going to blame that reception on disrespecting the source material? The writer and director of AOTC WAS the source material.

You want to know what the highest grossing film of 2026 so far is? The Super Mario Galaxy movie caused a HUGE rift in Mario fandom where it made 2 characters into siblings who weren't related in the games. Star Fox was clumsily shoved in when there was no indication in decades of either Mario or Star Fox games that they even existed in the same universe. Didn't seem to hurt its box office much.