Agreed
Ethan Phillips at least could act and injected some life into his character.
Lien spends most of her screen time looking like a bombed out junkie. Which, you know, she was. She was fired largely in part for substance abuse problems that were affecting her performance.
Put her alongside Beltran in a 'who's the biggest plank of wood' competition and suddenly, Beltran looks like Jim Carrey in comparison.
I like a lot of parts of the Berman-era shows but I don't think any are perfect but nor ever terrible and I completely understand someone liking certain eras as their faves.
I'm hesitant to make connections between an actor's performance and their personal lives, because generally I've no idea what their methods are. They're supposed to be professionals, right? They're supposed to be capable of emoting on cue in ways that have nothing to do necessarily with what they feel personally, right?
That said, you've expressed an interesting perspective, one worth considering. I used to love Kes's voice. I found it calming, soothing. It's been a minute since I've seen a Kes episode, so I'm not sure what my opinion would be now. I never considered that perhaps Kes's voice was calming to me precisely because Lien was bombed out. I don't have detailed knowledge of the production issues involving Lien, and I just kind of filled in the blanks by assuming that it didn't necessarily go further than there being issues getting Lien on stage, up and running. Maybe because of a lack of imagination on my part, I never assumed that her personal problems were impacting the quality of what they got on camera, even if it was affecting the number of takes, the quantity. But of course it could have, couldn't it?
She was never "bombed out". That rude and downright commentt from another poster who you reply to is just based on an after-constructuion by those who fired her. There are no evidence at all for it.
To call an actor a "bombed out junkie" is actually rude, insulting and provokative, especially when that poster has absoulutely nothing to come up with.
Lien's problems started when she had been fired from Voyager.
The 30+ interviews conducted for Robinson's and Wright's Star Trek Voyager: A Celebration paint a different picture.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Trek_Voyager:_A_Celebration
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Jennifer_Lien#Departure
https://entertainmentnow.com/star-trek/voyager-jennifer-lien-substance-abuse/
Producers and costars interviewed for the book are reported by Robinson and Wright to have said that they believed, while she was on the show, that Lien appeared to have severe personal issues that they suspected were either mental-health related, drug-addiction related, or a combination both. Whatever the issues actually were, they affected her work. They made her unreliable, she wouldn't talk about them, and she wouldn't get help for them. Consequently, the show runners decided that they they had no choice but to write her off the show.
Either way, we've got multiple people giving their opinion that it was mental health or drugs. And Lien has continued to struggle with mental health issues, while (IIRC) she's had no drug related arrests.
To say she was a bombed out junkie during Voyager is a bad call.
To say she was a bombed out junkie during Voyager is a bad call.
I would agree that there seems to be no evidence that she used drugs while working on the show. It seems to be some combination of rumor and suspicions. We don't even know the bases for the expressed suspicions, if any.
We don't know what her alleged personal issues were. The premise that there were no personal issues at all at the time though seems very unlikely, based on the statements people who worked with her have made.
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My opinion of her performance. That’s all. Bad call it may be, but it’s how she comes off to me.
Awful actress, poorly conceived character. These days a multiple felon.
It’s funny how she gets a pass actually. If (say) George Takei stumbled around his neighborhood off his rocker, exposing himself to kids, I feel a universal thumbs down reaction would be applied.
Lien played a space pixie, so everyone seems to apply more sympathy to her than she actually deserves.
Awful actress, poorly conceived character. These days a multiple felon.
It’s funny how she gets a pass actually. If (say) George Takei stumbled around his neighborhood off his rocker, exposing himself to kids, I feel a universal thumbs down reaction would be applied.
Lien played a space pixie, so everyone seems to apply more sympathy to her than she actually deserves.
No one is taking issue with your opinion of her performance.
If you want to take issue with that, it's fine, but it's also true. The wagons were certainly circled for a while among cast and crew went as far as facts went. However, since then it's been revealed that she was fired, at least partly due to the fact that drug abuse was affecting her performance.
It's hardly controversial to point out that a person who was taking drugs looked like they were taking drugs.
She's done very little to redeem herself in the years since leaving Voyager, having been arrested at least 8 times, in 2012 for domestic violence no less with a string of further arrests stretching as far as 2018.
She doesn't have my sympathy. Sorry about that.
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I base my own fondness for the character at least in part from how Kes played against Neelix. I saw some mid30s/early40s looking dude creepily possessively at a teenaged looking girl, and was creeped out. I shut my eyes and heard her voice, indulgent at times, almost motherly impatient at others, while his words so often seemed immature, jealous or needy, and it was like the child was *parenting* the adult.
That intrigued me. That Kes was so much more mature and felt so much more centered than Neelix, who was, IMO, a bit of a fragile insecure man-child.
If the actress herself lacked the sort of patience, understanding and inner peace she was manifesting in Kes, that’s a shame.
I don't want to call him useless, but I just never got over the fact how inconsistent they wrote him. In one episode, he would come off as a someone who was mostly in the way and had no real skills and was mostly annoying, and the next episode he would pick up tools and show and technical knowledge and skills. One episode, crewmates would seem mostly irritated by him, the next they would be singing praise of him.
Which, you know, was basically the shows biggest flaw quite quickly. No character was really consistent.
I don't care if you do or not. I don't know her. I'm only pushing back on this supposed fact that she was on drugs.
Link please.
Yeah, I not found of the Kes character, but I'm not going to direct any of that towards Jennifer Lien who has clearly had struggles that we aren't privy to. And as far as I'm aware, the only person she has truly harmed in her struggles is herself, so she has my sympathy.
None of us were there, so none of us know for sure. I have heard at least 2 people who worked on Voyager say that whatever was going on, Lien stopped communicating completely. Jeri Taylor said she brought Lien into her office to try and get to what was going on, and Lien would not respond. Taylor said they finally had no other choice but to let her go.
So, mental health, substance abuse, both...who knows? But Lien's problems certainly started before she left Voyager, not after.
Also, Lien is not a member of this board, so flaming/trolling rules don't apply. It's kind of sad to kick someone when they're down, but it's not against the rules.
If there's any chance we can move on, that would be great. This topic has been done to death a million times.
So, mental health, substance abuse, both...who knows? But Lien's problems certainly started before she left Voyager, not after.
Also, Lien is not a member of this board, so flaming/trolling rules don't apply. It's kind of sad to kick someone when they're down, but it's not against the rules.
If there's any chance we can move on, that would be great. This topic has been done to death a million times.
As provided above:
https://entertainmentnow.com/star-trek/voyager-jennifer-lien-substance-abuse/
There’s a lot of deflection in all of this from those involved and a great deal that may never be known, but at the same time… usually if there’s smoke, there’s fire.
As I mentioned earlier, I just think it’s very curious she gets a pass and I think a lot of that comes down to to the fact that she played a childlike character.
Say Robert Beltran was a jerk who increasingly phoned his performances in. No one takes issue.
I mean, jeez, say Roddenberry was a drug addicted misogynist… fans nod sagely.
Point out something negative about Lien and it’s ’kicking her when she’s down’. Because she played a space-pixie.
*But*, with link provided, I’ll leave it there as Digits asked and peace be with you, Tosk. You’re a great poster and I’ve no wish to be on the wrong side of you.
Or there's a lot of people blowing smoke.
I've often said that if Gene Roddenberry were still alive #metoo would have destroyed him.
As for the rest, I've heard stories that he smoked a lot of weed at one point, but that hardly makes him "drug addicted". I've never heard any indication that he dabbled in the hard drugs.
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