• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Poll A genuine question I want answered.

Kirk VS Sulu Fist Fight to the Death

  • Kirk

    Votes: 11 91.7%
  • Sulu

    Votes: 1 8.3%

  • Total voters
    12
  • This poll will close: .

Captain Kush

Cadet
Newbie
So me and a friend online have been arguing as we watch TOS (Both our first time watching anything Star Trek). We've been arguing about whether Sulu or Kirk would win in a fist fight. No phasers, no swords (Sulu), just fist fighting.

I tried to tell my boy that Sulu would have Kirk looking like Jake Paul, because he's obsessed with ancient forms of combat such as swordmanship. My friend believes that Kirk would win because he'd likely recieved intense hand-to-hand combat training during his time in the Academy.

We've finished the series month ago and the argument usually gets heated.
 
What good would his sword skills be when you said it had to be hand-to-hand? ;)
I used that as an example. If he could learn how to use a sword, he likely had training in other skills. He most likely knows at least one martial art because he stated that he was interested in many forms of ancient combat not just swordfighting.
 
Take away Sulu's sword, and he's down for the count. Kirk wins.
Even with a sword, Sulu folds like an origami geisha.

8eJVQbH.png
 
Kirk defeated Sulu, armed with a sword, in "The Naked Time," and also defeated the mirror version of Sulu, armed with a knife, in "Mirror, Mirror." Kirk was unarmed in both cases. Additionally, Kirk defeated Sulu—who used a martial arts-style attack—in "Catspaw." So there's three instances from the series, if that helps for any reason.
 
I thought that was Spock?
Technically it was Spock with a nerve pinch.

Yes, Kirk received hand-to-hand combat training, but Sulu probably did as well. So thats a draw. I don’t think this hypothetical question can really be answered because any small variable (including luck) could swing the fight one way or another.
 
Last edited:
What good would his sword skills be when you said it had to be hand-to-hand? ;)

Speaking as someone who's trained in Ringen (medieval German unarmed techniques), Langeschwert (medieval German two-handed sword techniques) and Highlands Broadsword (18th Century, one-handed sword, no off-hand weapon) - there's more overlap than you think. The key elements are an intuitive understanding of distance and timing, and training for that in one particular situation is still training for that. "Never give a sword to a man who can't dance," as the saying goes. (The internet attributes this to Confucius, though I'd always thought it was Voltaire.)

On the other hand, Sulu's sword skills are generally shown to be Olymic epee or rapier, and those sports tightly constrain what you're allowed to do, to a degree that it can actually hamper you in a no-rules fight.

On the griping hand, both Kirk and Sulu are honourable men who believe in the ideals of Star Fleet, so the actual answer is "neither," because both men have the skills to avoid accidentally killing an opponent and both men would stop fighting when their opponent was disabled. The entire point of Trek being that we can find solutions without violence, etc, etc.

As to who would disable their opponent? I honestly think both men are equally skilled; neither engages in close-combat as a routine task, but also neither is incompetent. They're also of similar height and build, and yes that matters - all else being equal, a good big man will beat a good small man every time. We have more examples of Kirk than Sulu, but very few examples of Kirk vs Sulu. And I don't think we can use the Mirror Universe examples, since that's clearly a situation where being better at hand-to-hand directly contributes to being promoted.

So who would win? It would depend on external factors: who was more rested that day? Who was less distracted? Did they both start fighting at the same time, or did one get a couple initial blows in before the other realised there was a fight at hand? Is one in easy-to-move-in casual wear when the other is in encumbering formal wear? And so on. Set all those factors to equal, and it's a coin flip.
 
Speaking as someone who's trained in Ringen (medieval German unarmed techniques), Langeschwert (medieval German two-handed sword techniques) and Highlands Broadsword (18th Century, one-handed sword, no off-hand weapon) - there's more overlap than you think. The key elements are an intuitive understanding of distance and timing, and training for that in one particular situation is still training for that. "Never give a sword to a man who can't dance," as the saying goes. (The internet attributes this to Confucius, though I'd always thought it was Voltaire.)

On the other hand, Sulu's sword skills are generally shown to be Olymic epee or rapier, and those sports tightly constrain what you're allowed to do, to a degree that it can actually hamper you in a no-rules fight.

On the griping hand, both Kirk and Sulu are honourable men who believe in the ideals of Star Fleet, so the actual answer is "neither," because both men have the skills to avoid accidentally killing an opponent and both men would stop fighting when their opponent was disabled. The entire point of Trek being that we can find solutions without violence, etc, etc.

As to who would disable their opponent? I honestly think both men are equally skilled; neither engages in close-combat as a routine task, but also neither is incompetent. They're also of similar height and build, and yes that matters - all else being equal, a good big man will beat a good small man every time. We have more examples of Kirk than Sulu, but very few examples of Kirk vs Sulu. And I don't think we can use the Mirror Universe examples, since that's clearly a situation where being better at hand-to-hand directly contributes to being promoted.

So who would win? It would depend on external factors: who was more rested that day? Who was less distracted? Did they both start fighting at the same time, or did one get a couple initial blows in before the other realised there was a fight at hand? Is one in easy-to-move-in casual wear when the other is in encumbering formal wear? And so on. Set all those factors to equal, and it's a coin flip.

Fantastic post. I love the quote, which sent me down a fun rabbit hole. One point I'd quibble with slightly—Kirk/Shatner and Sulu/Takei are not really of similar height and build IMHO; Kirk/Shatner is a few inches taller and in his prime was far more powerfully built.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top