The implication of the "Greek Gods" being aliens

[publiusr]

The two Ferengi trapped in the Barzan wormhole certainly made a bad impact:

Takar (region)

Takar was a region on a planet in the Delta Quadrant. The "Song of the Sages" originated from the inhabitants of Takar. Two Ferengi, Arridor and Kol, crash landed in Takar in 2366 after passing through the Barzan wormhole. They then proceeded to exploit the local mythology for their own benefit...

memory-alpha.fandom.com

No Atreides those two.

That was a more responsible telling of the Ancient Astronaut myth. Planet of the Titans another “Shaggy God Story”

A humorous take would be for aliens to have given Europeans flying buttresses, with one Grey saying “hey, even kindergartners can make pyramids with blocks, I mean—come on!”

 

[Maurice]

I made a typo in my previous post, which I corrected. In the early materials, the Romulan torpedo travels at 99%c, not 90%c.

Also, in this early material, they succeed in firing the phasers into the torpedo, but they have no effect. Kirk calls it a "shaped plasma". He orders evasive action, but it follows them somehow. He even suggests a possible defense amongst info he gives Rand to place in a recorder buoy just before the torpedo overtakes them.

Here's something else from the April 14th outline, which suggests Romulus and Remus might've been intended as either twin stars or twin gas giants, and also suggests some of the original thinking as to why the whole scenario appears to play out at impulse speed:

in the direction of the twin giants Romulus and Remus 638. Sub-light speed necessary here because of the anti-warp fields of our automatic defense-in-depth that lines the vast zone.

 

[Mudd]

Well, there's also the way the Neutral Zone is described in dialogue: "the neutral zone between planets Romulus and Remus and the rest of the galaxy." Disregarding the map graphic (which presumably was created by the art department instead of the writers, since the map and the dialogue don't entirely agree with each other), the line as scripted implies that the zone enclosed only a single star system.

Granted, we can't actually know if the early writers intended Earth to be an imperialist power,

In fact, you don't know what was in Schneider's submitted draft - do you?

 

[johnnybear]

The only alien race in TOS I can think of that are as named are the Gorn as the Metrons, who had scanned both the Enterprise and the marauder, knew and told each of the other.
JB

 

[Maurice]

The only alien race in TOS I can think of that are as named are the Gorn as the Metrons, who had scanned both the Enterprise and the marauder, knew and told each of the other.
JB

What does that word salad mean?

 

[Cicero]

What does that word salad mean?

The only alien race in TOS I can think of that are "as named" are the Gorn—as the Metrons, who had scanned both the Enterprise and the marauder, knew and told each [the native name] of the other.​

 

[Citiprime]

I have seen the argument in the past that since Enterprise (kinda) establishes the classification system for planets comes from the Vulcans with "Class-M" implied to be the Vulcan's "Minshara-Class," the Vulcan name for their homeworld might actually be Minshara since Minshara-Class would be the equivalent of us designating other planets as being an Earth-like class. And, unless you want to accept people calling humans "Terrans," we're not a species that name ourselves a derivative of the name of our homeworld.

Although, then you would get into which separate parts of continuity you want to go with, since (as already mentioned in this threat) T'Pol states the Vulcan name for the Romulans is Romulan, as well Hoshi's translation of the message directly from the Romulans during first contact, and not a human invention.

 

[Santa Kang]

I have seen the argument in the past that since Enterprise (kinda) establishes the classification system for planets comes from the Vulcans with "Class-M" implied to be the Vulcan's "Minshara-Class," the Vulcan name for their homeworld might actually be Minshara since Minshara-Class would be the equivalent of us designating other planets as being an Earth-like class. And, unless you want to accept people calling humans "Terrans," we're not a species that name ourselves a derivative of the name of our homeworld.

Although, then you would get into which separate parts of continuity you want to go with, since (as already mentioned in this threat) T'Pol states the Vulcan name for the Romulans is Romulan, as well Hoshi's translation of the message directly from the Romulans during first contact, and not a human invention.

If we want to play "the game", the names Romulus and Remus might have been applied by humans after hearing the name "Romulan."

 

[Christopher]

And, unless you want to accept people calling humans "Terrans," we're not a species that name ourselves a derivative of the name of our homeworld.

In fact, the word "human" comes from the same root as "humus," meaning soil or earth. So technically, "human" does, in fact, mean "Earthling," or at least is a closely related concept. (Of course, the ancients who originated the word didn't know about alien planets, but they meant it in the sense of beings of the earth/soil as opposed to divine beings in the heavens, and in connection to the widely held belief in ancient mythology that the gods formed humans from clay or dust.)

If we want to play "the game", the names Romulus and Remus might have been applied by humans after hearing the name "Romulan."

Which is far less plausible than the simpler explanation that humans coined the name themselves. Seriously, in real life, are there any foreign nationalities that English speakers actually call by the exact same demonym they use for themselves? At best, we approximate, like "French" for "Français" or "Polish" for "Polski." And what are the odds that an alien language would use the "-an" suffix for its demonyms?

In my novel Rise of the Federation: Uncertain Logic, I tried to paper over "Minefield"'s inane assertion as best I could by asserting that their actual name for themselves was Rom’ielln. I did what I could to craft a word that approximated Jolene Blalock’s pronunciation of “Romulan” in that scene while still being as distinct from the word “Romulan” as I could make it.

 

[Citiprime]

If we want to play "the game", the names Romulus and Remus might have been applied by humans after hearing the name "Romulan."

The problem I have with the human invention idea is it doesn't seem like something the Federation would do for official naming. Or even language you would use in social settings with other races (or respectfully between individuals), where you use a made up naming convention instead of just calling them what they call themselves and what they want to be called. It would be like humanity's official naming within the Federation being "Pink Skins" because that's what the Andorians decided to call us. In our own history, we've gone through several controversies about popular naming conventions and whether the people being given those names actually accept them (e.g., Indians, Native Americans, Indigenous Peoples, etc.).

It just doesn't fit they would keep a human convention of just making up whatever name they (or the universal translator) picks. Or the Vulcans themselves would be down for being referred to by an "imprecise" designation picked by humans as a reference to our own mythology.

Also, technically, the visual in "Balance of Terror" doesn't use Remus. It's Romulus and Romii.

 

[Santa Kang]

Which is far less plausible than the simpler explanation that humans coined the name themselves. Seriously, in real life, are there any foreign nationalities that English speakers actually call by the exact same demonym they use for themselves? At best, we approximate, like "French" for "Français" or "Polish" for "Polski." And what are the odds that an alien language would use the "-an" suffix for its demonyms?

It's not real, life it's fiction. Naming (and even visuals) is for the audience to draw certain conclusions. It's why the Romulans have Praetors and Centurions. It's why they have helmets styled a certain way. I'm willing to bet "Metron" is derived from Metatron and their look is meant to invoke Angels.
Romulan wasn't a word before Star Trek came along. It's made up, Enterprise establishes it as their name, though perhaps filtered through the Vulcan language. Humans borrowed it. There is no need to overthink a "plausible" reason because it ticks a certain itch in your brain. "Sometimes you have to let art flow over you."

 

[UssGlenn]

since Enterprise (kinda) establishes the classification system for planets comes from the Vulcans with "Class-M" implied to be the Vulcan's "Minshara-Class

That always annoyed me since the original intent of class M was that M was in the middle of the alphabet, the with planets getting less friendly you went towards A and Z, Class L often used for marginal habitability. Unfortunately, overall the actual examples of designated planets don't actually follow any logical system.

 

[Crisp Conditions]

I've always assumed or at least suspected that the original intent and/or origin of the term "class M" was to denote Earth/Mars conditions, and either "M" was for "Mars" or "EM" leading to just "M" for was for "Earth/Mars."

 

[Christopher]

The problem I have with the human invention idea is it doesn't seem like something the Federation would do for official naming.

Except the Federation didn't exist yet during the Earth-Romulan War, and the concept of the Federation hadn't been invented yet when "Balance of Terror" was written. The episode was written with the assumption of an Earth-centric interstellar civilization that had warred with the Romulans a century ago while having virtually no direct contact with them due to the primitiveness of the ships. They didn't know what they looked like, so it's a cinch that they didn't know what they called themselves. They must have gained enough mutual translation to negotiate the treaty eventually, but by that time, the name humans coined for the faceless enemy would presumably have caught on.

It just doesn't fit they would keep a human convention of just making up whatever name they (or the universal translator) picks. Or the Vulcans themselves would be down for being referred to by an "imprecise" designation picked by humans as a reference to our own mythology.

To a modern observer, perhaps not. But the writers in the 1960s wouldn't necessarily have been sensitive to such things.

Also, technically, the visual in "Balance of Terror" doesn't use Remus. It's Romulus and Romii.

Which, on the scale of the map, are obviously two separate star systems, not a pair of twin planets in a single star system. "Romulus" on the map is presumably the star system that contains the twin planets Romulus and Remus, as Nemesis eventually confirmed. The circle around the "Romulus" star presumably means it's the capital, while Romii is a neighboring system.

Besides, as I mentioned, there are some differences in detail between what the map shows and what the scripted lines say. No doubt the map was made by someone in the art department, maybe Matt Jefferies, and doesn't necessarily match the assumptions of the scriptwriters. Schneider wrote "Romulus and Remus," so of course he intended to reference the mythological twins. "Romii" is just a bit of gibberish the map artist made up.

It's not real, life it's fiction.

It's fiction whose express intention was to be more grounded and realistic than other contemporary science fiction television. Roddenberry was one of the first SFTV creators to consult with scientists, engineers, and think tanks to try to build as plausible a future as he could.

Romulan wasn't a word before Star Trek came along. It's made up,

It is, self-evidently, derived from the name Romulus, one of the mythological founders of Ancient Rome along with his twin brother Remus, and from the demonym "Roman" (Anglicization of Rōmānus) for an inhabitant of Rome. If Romulus had been used as a place name in Ancient Latin, then the demonym for it could, in fact, have been Rōmulānus, which would be Anglicized as Romulan. So at most it's only slightly made up, a minor variation on precedents thousands of years old.

There is no need to overthink a "plausible" reason because it ticks a certain itch in your brain.

It's bizarre that you consider it "overthinking" when it's the most natural and self-evident interpretation. I'm just astonished that I've had to go to so much effort to explain what I would've thought was obvious.

 

[Firebird]

It's bizarre that you consider it "overthinking" when it's the most natural and self-evident interpretation. I'm just astonished that I've had to go to so much effort to explain what I would've thought was obvious.

If the point was so "obvious," you wouldn't have to go through such extensive explanations.

 

[Santa Kang]

It's fiction whose express intention was to be more grounded and realistic than other contemporary science fiction television. Roddenberry was one of the first SFTV creators to consult with scientists, engineers, and think tanks to try to build as plausible a future as he could.

The proof is in the pudding. GR liked to trot that out, but story always tends to win out over "advisors"

 

[Christopher]

If the point was so "obvious," you wouldn't have to go through such extensive explanations.

As I said, the fact that it isn't obvious is what surprises me. I mean, like I said, are there any foreign nations on Earth that English speakers refer to by the exact same name they use in their own languages?

 

[Santa Kang]

It's bizarre that you consider it "overthinking" when it's the most natural and self-evident interpretation. I'm just astonished that I've had to go to so much effort to explain what I would've thought was obvious.

Its overthinking because its not really a problem. Its just something that bugs certain people who have difficulty with the more "artful" side of fiction, Yeah, I know how place naming works in the real world. But that's not how it works when developing a story. (yes I know you're a writer)

 

[johnnybear]

What does that word salad mean?

A salad is a dish consisting of mixed ingredients, usually vegetables. They are typically served chilled or at room temperature. Hope that helps
JB

 

[UssGlenn]

"Romii" is just a bit of gibberish the map artist made up.

Perhaps it's supposed to be read ROMULUS and ROM II (Romulus 2). Seems like an appropriate place for Roman numerals to appear. It is very odd that the map maker conjures Romii out of nowhere.