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Spoilers Foundation Adaptation Series on AppleTV+ (Discussion and Spoilers)

Magnifico says he loves Bayta, uses the "I've never felt such love" people use about The Mule, than Gaal sees The Mule in his mind holding a knife to him. What could this possibly mean?!?! (t's Bayta she's the Mule. I'm not complaining, it's fun.)

hmm interesting theory, but I'd really hate for her to be the bad gal. I like her character and find her mysterious.
She and her husband did do the galactic social media vids or whatever travelling around, that could be a neat cover to influence people and getting around...
However would she really let the Mule fella hurt her husband - the shaving hand thing? They seem very devoted to each other "almost in a never felt such love" over the top way.
Could also make sense from the Mule to "abduct" her and now she somehow being in control of Dawn who lets his guard down near her potentially.

Still hope it isn't true.
 
Well, jiminy. This is a hell of a time to switch horses, but here's hoping the new team can keep things humming along.

Granted, anything Goyer said about his long term plan is now void, but I recall him saying there were one or two characters (he gave an exact number, I just don't remember which it was) who would span from the beginning of the series to its end. Demerzel appears to be out of contention, but there's still a chance for a Cleon. While poor Cleon 26 was incinerated, and the impressively large but not unlimited supply of live spares is gone (and gruesomely so), 23 didn't seem to do anything to the embryos. Plus we've got 25 (albeit legless), and the Cloud Dominion Baby King's descendants could still be hiding somewhere in space, so we probably haven't quite seen the last of a non-mad (well, less mad) non-Mann Cleon yet.

I suppose some incarnation of Seldon and Gaal remain the most obvious choices for characters who can make it to the end.

Kalle is a robot (not really surprising) who lives on the Moon with other robots (somewhat more surprising). I wonder what happened to Hari when he left with her, if he might still be alive in some form on Earth. Also, it's fun to see Earth with lower water levels instead of higher ones in a piece of science fiction. Nice twist, mixes things up a bit.

There was no set-up for the customary time-jump, and things seem pretty, well, in Crisis, so I guess the next season will deviate from the pattern and pick up where this one left off. It would also give them time to clean things up after the show held things so close to the vest with the double-twist with the True Mule. As it is, things are a bit under-explored regarding Bayta and Magnifico's true nature, especially at what point Gaal suspected a trick and how she managed to sabotage Magnifico (though it does explain why she kept him around after seeing he'd been turned). If we get another season of the Mule unmasked that can explore her more fully, that'll retrospectively make the last-minute reveal less abrupt than it seems right now.

Interesting that it looks like Toran loved her legitimately, given that he didn't take the revelation that she was the second-greatest living mass-murderer in the galaxy in stride the way people under the Decoy Mule's control generally did when he defied expectations.

I've been wondering if there was going to be an in-universe reason for the different actors who played the Decoy Mule in season 2 and 3. I suppose it's still possible, the pieces are in place for Gaal and the Mule (or her avatar) to have their fight on Trantor, and Bayta might've found that having a goggle-wearing pirate warlord was too useful a disguise to drop so she might just pick another one. Still, if that were the case, I would've expected Gaal to comment on the fact that the Mule changed faces in her visions after Salvor died; unless that was the thing that made her suspect he was a patsy, in which case it makes sense for her to have kept that close to her chest.
 
I wanted Dusk to go full Palpatine with that weapon.
“Witness the full power of this battle station!” :)

It’s a shame she was revealed to be the Mule. I liked her. She always reminded me of Hannah Spearitt. I always had a huge crush on her when I was young.
So I assume that was Earth at the end. So the evil robots have taken over. At least it isn’t apes this time.
 
Massive hidden easter egg / spoiler, credit to Reddit.

If you slow down Demerzel's final scene, when her skull is all that's left and her eye is flashing:

It's morse code.

Morse: - .-. .- -. ... ..-. . .-. .-. . -..

English: TRANSFERRED
You know, I kinda figured there was a “Remember” thing going on there.
 
So I assume that was Earth at the end. So the evil robots have taken over. At least it isn’t apes this time.
Who says they’re evil? (Despite the Cylon-y sounding one.). And if they’re still anywhere within throwing distance of the books, there’s another possibility in Foundation and Earth, albeit perhaps with different characters.
 
This has been easily the show's best season, but I found the finale disappointing. Dusk going full-on Caligula and destroying everything is not as interesting to me as the nuanced character stories of the rest of the season. Just killing Day and Demerzel and having Day's efforts fail is an unsatisfying ending to their arc (although they certainly did plant enough seeds that I was sure Demerzel would transfer her consciousness even before I read that spoiler). And having the Mule arc end with an abrupt cliffhanger rather than any real resolution isn't satisfying either.

Most of all, I'm unhappy that they changed the ending of the book. In Foundation and Empire,
Magnifico was actually the Mule, and Bayta was the one who figured it out and foiled his plans at the climax. Her kindness, her acceptance of Magnifico despite his comical appearance, was his downfall, because he so cherished being liked by someone without having to alter their minds that he left her unaltered, and that left her free to see what was happening and reason out who he really was. He lost because she was both smart and compassionate.

I get that they wanted to surprise the books' readers by changing the Mule's identity, but I wish they hadn't, because Bayta's defeat of the Mule is my favorite part in the entire trilogy, and Bayta my favorite character. She disproves the conventional wisdom that Asimov couldn't or didn't write female characters, because she's one of the best female characters in Golden Age science fiction. So I hate that the show threw out the best part, merely because they felt they had to change it for the sake of change. I would've rather seen them dramatize the story that worked so well in prose.
 
Magnifico was actually the Mule, and Bayta was the one who figured it out and foiled his plans at the climax. Her kindness, her acceptance of Magnifico despite his comical appearance, was his downfall, because he so cherished being liked by someone without having to alter their minds that he left her unaltered, and that left her free to see what was happening and reason out who he really was. He lost because she was both smart and compassionate.

I get that they wanted to surprise the books' readers by changing the Mule's identity, but I wish they hadn't, because Bayta's defeat of the Mule is my favorite part in the entire trilogy, and Bayta my favorite character. She disproves the conventional wisdom that Asimov couldn't or didn't write female characters, because she's one of the best female characters in Golden Age science fiction. So I hate that the show threw out the best part, merely because they felt they had to change it for the sake of change. I would've rather seen them dramatize the story that worked so well in prose.

I do not find there to be any more reason to believe Bayta is the Mule than the Pirate as the Mule. She could be being puppeteered just the same. She may even have some latent Mentalic abilities, which could make it easier for the Puppetmaster and allow her to resist Gaal and the others seeing the truth in her mind. It could still be Magnifico.
 
I do not find there to be any more reason to believe Bayta is the Mule than the Pirate as the Mule. She could be being puppeteered just the same. She may even have some latent Mentalic abilities, which could make it easier for the Puppetmaster and allow her to resist Gaal and the others seeing the truth in her mind. It could still be Magnifico.

But that's no better, because it reduces Bayta to just another controlled victim and takes away what made her unique and enabled her to see through him. They've still ruined the best moment in the trilogy, even if she isn't really the Mule.
 
In lieu of Goyer's episode-by-episode official podcast (which he declined to do since he wasn't involved with final post-production on the season would've only been familiar with the ingredients and not the end-product), he's done an interview on Bald Move Pulp walking through the season. I'm not sure what other press might be in the cards giving us his perspective on the season.

Magnifico was actually the Mule, and Bayta was the one who figured it out and foiled his plans at the climax. Her kindness, her acceptance of Magnifico despite his comical appearance, was his downfall, because he so cherished being liked by someone without having to alter their minds that he left her unaltered, and that left her free to see what was happening and reason out who he really was. He lost because she was both smart and compassionate.
Something like that might still be in the cards, since she seemed to leave Cleon 25 and Toran unconverted, the latter almost certainly for sentimental reasons. There does probably have to be something else going on with her to motivate her acquisition of power and overall sadism, since she could get plenty of adoration conventionally what with being sweet, charming, and cute as a pound full of kittens, so it's hard to anticipate much without knowing more of the "true" Bayta and not the persona she's adopted.
 
Who says they’re evil? (Despite the Cylon-y sounding one.). And if they’re still anywhere within throwing distance of the books, there’s another possibility in Foundation and Earth, albeit perhaps with different characters.
All robots are evil. :)
Didn’t know that about the books and the “real” Mule. That certainly would have been better
 
All robots are evil. :)

In Asimov, all robots are bound by the Three Laws, requiring them to do no harm to humans, obey human orders, and even sacrifice themselves to protect humans if necessary. The story "Evidence," in which a politician was accused of being a humaniform robot (and supposedly disproved it at the end, though in a way that left the question unanswered for the readers), argued that there would be little difference in behavior between a Three Laws-compliant robot and a highly moral, selfless human being. Essentially, it's impossible for a Three Laws robot to be evil; at worst, an unanticipated conflict between the Laws can lead it to act in a harmful way without having a choice in the matter (and the gist of many of the positronic-robot stories was about solving the mystery of why a robot was acting up in a certain way).

Although that was complicated when Daneel and Giskard formulated the idea of the Zeroth Law, that the need to protect individual human lives could be superseded by the need to protect humanity as a whole. Which is an "ends justify the means" argument of a sort often used to justify evil acts. But only Giskard, and Daneel once Giskard altered him, were capable of acting according to the Zeroth Law due to their unique neurology. In most positronic robots, the Three Laws were not actually written instructions or software protocols, but simplified verbal descriptions of potentials physically built into their circuitry, intrinsic to their balance and functioning, so that a robot was physically incapable of violating the Three Laws without fatally collapsing its neural network (although Asimov didn't use that term).
 
In most positronic robots, the Three Laws were not actually written instructions or software protocols, but simplified verbal descriptions of potentials physically built into their circuitry, intrinsic to their balance and functioning, so that a robot was physically incapable of violating the Three Laws without fatally collapsing its neural network (although Asimov didn't use that term).
Though most of the stories in I, Robot were based on the idea that it was never quite as straightforward as it appeared on paper. The robot unknowingly ordered into a hazardous situation who ended up frozen and unable to move at the exact spot where the intensity of the threat to itself (in the third law) matched the intensity of the order it had been given (in the second law). Or the one who developed its own cult and didn't even understand what a human was, but still managed to adhere to all three laws more-or-less coincidentally. The telepathic robot who considered even the smallest emotional distress as "harm," and ended up telling everyone who spoke to it the things they most wanted to hear, and having its own mind collapse once it was confronted with the fact that its flagrant lying had ended up causing much greater emotional harm after the lies were inevitably found out. The robot built with an incomplete first law in order to work with humans in hazardous conditions who was immediately regarded as a potential murderer...

Actually, that story seems to be most applicable, in that it fits with how Demerzel was trying to find ways to resist her imperatives from Cleon 1. In that case, the robot was built without the "nor through inaction, allow a human to come to harm" clause in the first law, since prior robots at the installation had been a bit like golden retrievers dragging kids playing in water to shore on the assumption that they're drowning, and prevented anyone from getting work done in potentially-dangerous industrial areas. Susan Calvin immediately realized that such a robot could, say, hold a heavy weight over a human's head, drop it without violating the modified first law (since it could easily catch the weight and keep it from crushing the person, so dropping it wasn't causing harm) and then just... not catch it once it was falling, since there was no compulsion against allowing harm to come to pass, just on directly inflicting it. Demerzel was doing a similar kind of rules-lawyering, when Cleon 24 told her that, since as far as she knew, the robot skull was inert, there was no harm in attempting to clasp with it, and if it happened to actually be functional, the clasp succeeded, and the other robot was able to neutralized Cleon 1's control chip, it would just be an unrelated thing that happened that Demerzel couldn't have expected would be the consequence of her putatively-futile action. One of many such ambiguities she'd been operating within, since she was given the impossible task of preserving Cleon forever.

Though speaking of robots, we may be heading back to the overtly non-Asimovian robots of season 1. In the interview I linked to earlier, Goyer talks a bit more about the agreement he negotiated with Fox (who owns the adaptation rights to Asimov's robot stories and is developing a new I, Robot project), and that it was strictly limited, something along the lines of "In episode X of Foundation, you can use the words 'three laws of robotics,' in episode Y you can use the name 'Daneel,'" so it's uncertain if a similar license can be struck by the new creative team. On the one hand, the Fox executive involved is a science fiction fan and has been enjoying the show, but on the other hand, he had a direct working relationship with Goyer which led to Goyer being in a position to ask for official permission to use robot-verse elements in the show (reminds me of the co-ownership situation with the adaptation rights for Marvel comics characters, and the reputably detailed breakdown not just on what studios got which characters, but who got which aspects of characters, demarcating a specific "X-Men Quicksilver" and "Avengers Quicksilver," for instance).
 
Quite an ending. I wonder if that's really Gaal on the ship. Physically it seems to be her, but mentally I don't know. We didn't see what exactly happened to the real Mule after Gaal started repelling her mental control. Also what's Brother Dusk's plan here. He's not a spring chicken so I don't know how long he thinks he can live and alter Seldon's plan.
 
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