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Why have they marginalised Captain Pike and turned him into a weakling?

TheFlutteringHorde said:
Worst of all, he cooks!

In a kitchen!
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In order for that to be bad we would have to be saying "I never liked SNW's Captain Pike." This is clearly not the case from anyone here saying that current Pike writing is different.

He used to cook while he captained. It was literally part of his captaining.
 
I think Pike was depicted far better in Discovery than his own series. I think his empathy, compassion, and principles were a necessary antidote to Lorca's treachery. But he does seem a bit lacking and rudderless on SNW. I thought at first that the writers just wanted to present Pike as a role model for a kind of non-toxic masculinity and also that making him a Dad Captain would be a way to make him stand out from the other Trek leads. But I'm thinking more now that the SNW showrunners care more about making Star Trek: Year One and want to get on from Pike to Kirk.
 
Sketcher said:
Yes, Pike is more passive compared to say Kirk. That was literally the point of the season 1 finale. Is he a bad captain? No. He just isn't the gunho, take-charge and kick ass type.
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We (or at least I) am not comparing Pike to Kirk. I am comparing Pike to Pike.

In the season 1 opener he took an away team under cover, rescued his crew, and bent an entire planet to not destroying itself by showing them his starship. With a speech.

Sooooo passive.
 
Well, in the season opener he ended a Gorn invasion.

BTW, while a thoroughgoing non-believer in religion, myself, IMO having Pike kneel to pray at Batel's bedside took a lot of guts on everyone's part - writers, producers, Mount in his earnest portrayal.

That was way further out of the Trek rut than a musical episode or Oswalt as a Vulcan Doug.
 
My hat's off to all of 'em.
 
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Sketcher said:
Yes, Pike is more passive compared to say Kirk. That was literally the point of the season 1 finale. Is he a bad captain? No. He just isn't the gunho, take-charge and kick ass type.
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Pike is shown as a captain who prefers and will try diplomacy first if he believes it's a workable option. However unlike a certain 24th century captain, once he realizes diplomacy fails, he has no qualms using full military force to achieve the needed goals. Also unlike that 24th century captain Pike puts his crew and a ship first in such a situation, and isn't willing to simply sacrifice lives for the greater good.
 
Hi everyone,

New poster to Trek BBS here. Found the forum and am excited to find a place to talk Trek.

I've personally enjoyed SNW's lighthearted approach. I had TNG on in the background yesterday while folding laundry and was watching "Birthright, Pt 2". It reminds me of how seriously TNG, and other series took themselves sometimes, almost to the point of the dialogue being too melodramatic.

On the subject of Pike: I get why it feels like he's been dialed back compared to Season 1, but I see it differently. Trek captains are usually written as archetypes—Picard the philosopher, Sisko the soldier, Janeway the caretaker. Pike feels like Trek’s first attempt at a captain who is simply… a dude. He cooks, he dances, he rides horses, and his relationship with Batel is complicated.

To me, that’s not weakness but realism. Part of Pike’s style as a leader is taking a back seat so his crew can shine, which is something the show leans into. Yes, it means he gets undercut at times, but you could also see that as a captain who trusts his officers enough to let them disagree and take risks.

Writing him as an overbearing or “larger than life” captain would make him feel like another archetype. Making him an "every man" makes his eventual accident—and the loss of this rare kind of captain—all the more poignant IMO.
 
Stam22 said:
Hi everyone,

New poster to Trek BBS here. Found the forum and am excited to find a place to talk Trek.

I've personally enjoyed SNW's lighthearted approach. I had TNG on in the background yesterday while folding laundry and was watching "Birthright, Pt 2". It reminds me of how seriously TNG, and other series took themselves sometimes, almost to the point of the dialogue being too melodramatic.

On the subject of Pike: I get why it feels like he's been dialed back compared to Season 1, but I see it differently. Trek captains are usually written as archetypes—Picard the philosopher, Sisko the soldier, Janeway the caretaker. Pike feels like Trek’s first attempt at a captain who is simply… a dude. He cooks, he dances, he rides horses, and his relationship with Batel is complicated.

To me, that’s not weakness but realism. Part of Pike’s style as a leader is taking a back seat so his crew can shine, which is something the show leans into. Yes, it means he gets undercut at times, but you could also see that as a captain who trusts his officers enough to let them disagree and take risks.

Writing him as an overbearing or “larger than life” captain would make him feel like another archetype. Making him an "every man" makes his eventual accident—and the loss of this rare kind of captain—all the more poignant IMO.
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First of all welcome.

Secondly, you are spot on in your observations of Pike. In the Cage he is more overbearing on the Bridge, and then wrestles with his command decisions. On Talos he's analytical, hesitant at times, with the best way to cope with the illusions.

He's just a guy and I enjoy that aspect of him
 
Tallguy said:
We (or at least I) am not comparing Pike to Kirk. I am comparing Pike to Pike.

In the season 1 opener he took an away team under cover, rescued his crew, and bent an entire planet to not destroying itself by showing them his starship. With a speech.

Sooooo passive.
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and that hasn't changed, he's just had less screen time.
 
DarKush said:
I think Pike was depicted far better in Discovery than his own series. I think his empathy, compassion, and principles were a necessary antidote to Lorca's treachery. But he does seem a bit lacking and rudderless on SNW. I thought at first that the writers just wanted to present Pike as a role model for a kind of non-toxic masculinity and also that making him a Dad Captain would be a way to make him stand out from the other Trek leads. But I'm thinking more now that the SNW showrunners care more about making Star Trek: Year One and want to get on from Pike to Kirk.
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Yes. They really want get to Kirk so they can basically rewrite over the original series and put their mark on the original star trek to cement their vision as the true beginnings of trek. This whole show has seemed like a transition show to get to Kirk and his crew. Pike has definitely taken a backseat since season 2 and it's getting worse.
 
I think there's been more episodes focusing on characters besides Pike, and so some focus has been taken away from him, but that doesn't imply to me that he's been "weakened". It just that it's hard to have a Non-Pike character focused episode if your focusing mostly on Pike. On the older 90s/00s era shows you had episodes that focused on characters other than Picard, Sisko, Janeway, and Archer, but that didn't mean these characters were now "weak".
 
DarKush said:
I think Pike was depicted far better in Discovery than his own series. I think his empathy, compassion, and principles were a necessary antidote to Lorca's treachery. But he does seem a bit lacking and rudderless on SNW. I thought at first that the writers just wanted to present Pike as a role model for a kind of non-toxic masculinity and also that making him a Dad Captain would be a way to make him stand out from the other Trek leads. But I'm thinking more now that the SNW showrunners care more about making Star Trek: Year One and want to get on from Pike to Kirk.
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Nothing’s stopped the showrunners from pitting Pike against other Starfleet captains or crew that behave like Lorca, minus the mirror universe bit. To add more credibility to his empathetic command style.

There’s nothing wrong with Pike command approach, in wanting other opinions to contrast his thinking. And then trusting his crew accordingly.

But it’s leaving too open a door to make Kirk’s style of command look good. When both command styles should be considered valid.
 
Sketcher said:
Yes, Pike is more passive compared to say Kirk. That was literally the point of the season 1 finale. Is he a bad captain? No. He just isn't the gunho, take-charge and kick ass type.
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Honestly, I wouldn't characterize TOS Kirk as "gung ho" or the "kick ass type" either. Take charge, yes, certainly. But most people forget that S1 Kirk on TOS was written as the exact same thoughtful, pensive guy that Pike was in "The Cage." Kirk questioned himself all the time. We just think of Kirk as less passive than Pike because William Shatner gave a different style of performance than Jeffrey Hunter did. But there wasn't any real difference in how the two characters were written, at least at first.
 
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