Both. I do my best to make the experience fun and exciting. (My wife and I make it a point to make sure everyone at our house or when we are on vacation has a good time. You'd be surprised how easy it is to turn the mundane into excitement. A little imagination and some good spirit goes a long way.)
What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?
- Thread starter Amasov
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When did I ever mention "superiority"?
That's you guys coming up with that in your own head.
It's different stroke for different folks.
I'm not talking about Toonami and DBZ airing on them, I'm talking about going way back, further than that.
Long before Toonami existed.
And no I'm not referencing DBZ and their way of doing battle where there's too much talking.
There are far more shows beyond the stuff that aired here in the states.
If you watched other media than what was shown on US TV.
Gundam, Macross, countless other Animes.
There are so many to pick from beyond the more popular franchises.
You would understand what I'm referencing.
Not controversial: you need some better boardgames.
gundam and macross did get shown on us tv. granted, macross did as part of robotech, but still.
you don't have to mention it, it's just what this whole thing is about, how yu come off with the way you talk. maybe you don't *mean* to but...
you want bigger, longer, and uncut, and more realistic space battles in star trek
you want to relocate the bridge, you want to break all the conventions that define how stuff in star trek works, but also keep all the stuff that's already there, but dumb them down and make them "practical", and insisting this would make star trek better and acting like you somehow have a chance in heck of being a trek showrunner
and the constant coming back to the anime thing and insisting that you have superior knowledge and that superior knowledge is why and everyone else is dumb for not embracing the superior knowledge.
but the kind of anime battles you are talking about are counter to the realism you espouse in the other things anyway.
idk
The MCU is currently in a state of decline. Superman did the best opening weekend of any movie released so far in 2025, meaning it's done better than either Captain America Brave New World or Thunderbolts did on their opening weekend. Hell, just this weekend, Superman pulled in 64% of Thunderbolts's total box office haul and 60% of Brave New World's. I think the movie is doing just fine against the MCU.
I think it’s fairly obvious from my art thread and the fic I write that I know a thing or two about anime myself, but I would never try to use that as a card to play when trying to outdo others’ media knowledge. If anything, I use that knowledge and temper it with everything I’ve learned about how western media is written and produced.
Yes, I do. DS9 was the first one to go down that route, it has gotten better over time IMO for length.
But there are some things they need to adjust IMO.
That's really a small ask, and I'm not the first Trekkie to do that.
I most likely won't be the last.
Now you're exaggerating.
Moving the bridge suddenly becomes "Breaking all the Conventions"?
That's a bit hyperbolic.
When did I state I would "Dumb them down"?
Now you're just exaggerating again.
Being practical doesn't mean dumbing anything down.
You guys are the one thinking it's "Superior Knowledge"
I'm just telling you it's different, that's all. No more, no less.
Not Good or Bad, just different.
Apparently being different isn't okay for you guys. So much for diversity.
Even though Trek preaches diversity, the moment somebody wants to change one little thing, you guys blow up about it.
How is that counter to realism?
Large scale battles have happened IRL in human history.
If you followed some of the major battles in WW2, the scale & scope is easily similar to what I'm talking about. If not larger.
Using your imagination and extrapolating into what large scale space battles would be like in the future isn't all that different.
The size & numbers might be larger, the battlefield scale might be larger, but the fundamentals remains largely the same.
You are not the victim of a lack of diversity.
You are on the losing side of an argument you’ve made for a 1:1 implementation of anime storytelling devices because you have failed to convince everyone else with your evidence.
You tried to make a case, and you lost. Nobody “blew up” about anything. We presented counter arguments.
Star Trek is good even if the battles don't look like something I'd see on Cowboy Bebop. There.
And I disagree with those counter arguments.
Those "Anime Story Telling Devices" have grown a size-able global fanbase and have proven track records.
general thinking is that it will be more like submarine combat, and more like waiting hours and hours and hours and then suddenly you're dead or you're not. ww2 style combat is practically the last thing real world future space combat is expected to take.
it's counter to realism becasue those large scale naval battles were not "macross missile massacres", and they weren't lines (or walls) of ships just sitting in formation and spamming shells at each other, there was maneuvers, there were attempts at subterfuge, there were errors, sometimes ships ran aground. even during the ship-of-the-line days it wasn't static lines just taking turns lobbing cannonballs at each other.
even though the honor harrington series i cited before leans on those ship-of-the-line days for it's surface level ship design and
if you are saying that already established and often used technological elements are too fantastical and want to restrict their use and abilities, that is dumbing them down. there is also attempts at stealth, and ECM (the only anime i can think of that actually worked electronic countermeasures into space combat is Bodacious Space Pirates, somebody remind me to watch that so i can forget to again), new tactics, new kinds of missiles, crew stress, all sorts of things. that anime style ship combat usually eschews.
. even though how combat has been handled ons star trek thus far has not negatively effected it (except that disco fight, that was really stupid, but still hasn't harmed trek overall), even though you can because it isn't about a million ships lining up to shoot a million other ships. length of battle doesn't make for a better battle. or story.
no we don't, in fact, that's the point.
like i would kind of like to see what an anime company might do with trek, but not in this way. and what we'd get would probably be one of those super stiff cgi ones where they don't realise you can't just one to one that either (poor berserk, and fist)
cowboy bebop usually has short and sweet (and hanging on by the skin of their teeth) space fights
when it has them
yes, in their niches and genres. that doesn't make them universal or applicable to every kind of story, even every kind of scifi fight. if they were, every anime would use them, also. but they don't.
Does that make for a more entertaining product for the largest number of people?
It depends on if you're a cloaked vessel or if you're not a cloaked vessel and who you're fighting.
If you're on the defensive and are not cloaked, your combat doctrine will be different from that of a cloaked vessel.
If it's cloaked vs cloaked, that's a whole different can of worms.
Also the technology disparity & vessel conditions between the combatants will dictate how fast a fight will go.
If the technology gap is wide enough, it'll be a fast fight.
If it's near peers, it could turn out into a long drawn out slug match.
There's no one size fits all because you have to evaluate every element in the fight along with environmental conditions and mission objectives.
Then there's the crew situation along with any side mission objectives and larger in-universe actions going on.
I know, there were formations, tactics, searching out locations along with flanking and manuevering.
The same would be true in space.
Where did I say that? You're putting words in my mouth, things I never stated.
I told you I'm using all the technological Lore that ALREADY EXISTS in ST and applying them in realistic manners.
I wouldn't dumb them down. Nothing that exists will go away.
So stop getting worried that I'm going to take something away, when that's the furthest from what I would do.
Even the crazy stuff like the "Spore Drive" is one of those technoligcal elements that I would use in my Head Canon.
So you don't have to worry.
Nothing Existing in Trek's Lore/Tech will go away or get deleted.
Depends on what Anime's you watch, some are more surface level, some aren't.
Things like Stealth, ECM, ECCM, are all things I would use and factor in.
If you understood the full context of the movie, you would understand why there are millions of ships on screen.
Remember "Context is for Kings".
There's a good reason why there are millions of vessels on screen in Gundam 00: A Wakening of the Trailblazer, that's a major part of the story.
I wouldn't want them to use CGI characters like that. That's a horrible use of CGI.
For the Mecha / StarShips / Environments, I can see the value in CGI; but for the characters, modernized 2D Animation is still king.
"Soukyuu no Fafner: Exodus" had one of the best balances of CGI Mecha / Enemies / Environment along with modernized 2D Animation for the characters.
If you're featuring a "War Story", then yes, that's where it makes sense.
You scale the battle size to the story you want to tell.
Star Trek is not anime.
They could make an effort to make a Star Trek anime and if they chose to use those conventions, that would probably be expected.
Yes, storytelling conventions can and should be revisited on occasion. Making changes keeps things fresh. I welcome change. I think we need to evolve Star Trek but we keep going back to the exact same things and play in the nostalgia sandbox. There has to be a balance between the old and the new and while I think SNW is the closest thing to that, it is not without its flaws.
But I digress… back to the point… The reason this treat Trek like Anime thing is getting so much pushback I believe is that it’s a step too far for most of us.
They could make an effort to make a Star Trek anime and if they chose to use those conventions, that would probably be expected.
Yes, storytelling conventions can and should be revisited on occasion. Making changes keeps things fresh. I welcome change. I think we need to evolve Star Trek but we keep going back to the exact same things and play in the nostalgia sandbox. There has to be a balance between the old and the new and while I think SNW is the closest thing to that, it is not without its flaws.
But I digress… back to the point… The reason this treat Trek like Anime thing is getting so much pushback I believe is that it’s a step too far for most of us.
Because it makes you "UnComfortable".
Despite Anime having their own legendary Sci-Fi franchises and Space Opera's to boot that Star Trek can easily learn a few things from.
I bet they could. But incremental change is a lot easier to accept than a full fledged turn to the anime way of telling stories.
Perhaps I’m misunderstanding you, but it feels as though you believe your way is the right way all the time. You are strong in your convictions and that’s commendable. But just because you like a specific way of telling stories doesn’t mean the rest of the audience will. You have to play to the larger audience. Not just a segment of a segment of the population. TPTB tried to make sweeping changes with Discovery. How did that go?
And some of the changes DSC tried to make deserved the blowback, and Bryan Fuller and Alex Kurtzman didn't even try to introduce animei concepts into the franchise.
That wasn't the question. Does it make a more entertaining product for the greatest number of people?
Quite terribly, actually. So much so that I heard that Kurtzman was fired...from a cannon.
a movie you repeatedly didn't actually name, and acted like was some obscure thing nobody knew about because it wasn't on american tv. and while it wasn't actually on toonami (except apparently exclusive phillipines broadcasts or something), gundam 00 still came out while america was riding a gundam wave in the oughts, and it did get dubbed, and released to american stores, and the movie is a continuation of it; and it is part of a massive franchise. even the reviews for it say it's pretty to look at the fight scenes but everything else was pretty muddled.
literally RIGHT THERE is where you are saying that
no, that is not how that works "make bigger battle for bigger audience" . that's literally how you get spectacle movies that everybody hates because too much is happening to follow an they don't get enough plot to care about any of the characters. that's completely misuderstanding what fireproof said. although i think that's going towards the opposite end, not everything is made for, or should be, for the biggest audience possible. but you do want the people who are interested in the other parts of star trek to want to watch a fight, and, well...
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