Ok, just to be clear, was it implied that literal orgies were happening in "Naked Now" or am I being malicious?!?

[Skipper]

This is a point that bizarrely came up in the thread Was TNG considered a "family tv show" at the time? And anyway, what does "family tv show" mean?

I jokingly said that it didn't seem like it was really written for children since already in the second episode we had space orgies. To my surprise, someone asked what I was talking about. Now, from my memory, obviously no one had mentioned the orgies (it was the 80s after all!), but hey! The first victims were found naked together in a room. Data and Tasha were doing naughty things. Even Picard and Beverly were all horny. It seemed obvious to me that with the loss of inhibitions in other parts of the spaceship there would be non-stop group sex. But it seems that it was not so obvious to everyone!

So my question is: do you think the writers wanted to make it clear that orgies were happening at that moment on the ship but obviously couldn't say it clearly, or is it just the product of my sick mind?

 

[somebuddyX]

It is definitely not you.

 

[Skipper]

It is definitely not you.

Thanks!!!

 

[Skipper]

Incidentally, in the same thread it was pointed out to me that nowhere in Captain's Holiday is it stated that exposing a Horga'hn is an explicit declaration of sexual availability.

I felt very dirty and naughty, as I took it for granted.

 

[Christopher]

Well, yes, of course. Roddenberry wanted to take advantage of the looser censorship of the '80s and show sexuality more openly. So while "The Naked Time"'s disinhibition virus revealed the characters' inner angst and longings, "The Naked Now" was basically about people getting horny and having casual sex. I'm surprised this would even be a question.

See also "Justice," where the Edo were overtly defined as a sexually open and uninhibited people, so it was clearly implied that the adult crewmembers visiting the planet would be getting some cultural experiences that couldn't be shown on commercial TV.

(it was the 80s after all!)

Yes, and '80s and early '90s entertainment was much more racy than '60s entertainment, or than what we typically see today. This was the era when pay cable was putting gratuitous nudity and sex into its shows to make them more adult, and when R-rated sex comedies, horror movies, and sword-and-sorcery movies were laden with nudity and misogyny. Commercial TV got in on the trend of titillation to the extent that it was allowed to. Heck, even the 1989 Columbo revival often did stories that were considerably more sexually themed than the original series.

So I think you have it backward. If they only implied orgies rather than stating it outright, it's not because it was the '80s, since a lot of '80s shows like nighttime soaps, sitcoms, and pay-cable series freely embraced sexual themes. Rather, it was because TNG was aimed at a more general audience rather than an adult audience, though it was more adult in its subject matter than a "family show" would've been.

Incidentally, in the same thread it was pointed out to me that nowhere in Captain's Holiday is it stated that exposing a Horga'hn is an explicit declaration of sexual availability.

I felt very dirty and naughty, as I took it for granted.

You have no reason to feel that way; you saw exactly what was intended. Whoever said that to you was not paying attention.

JOVAL: The Horga'hn is the Risian symbol of sexuality. To own one is to call forth it powers. To display it is to announce you are seeking Jamaharon.

The context and performances make it quite clear that Joval is coming on to Picard, that "Jamaharon" is a Risian term for sex, and that Picard is annoyed at Riker for taking advantage of his unfamiliarity with the custom to try to get him laid. One would really have to be blind to subtext to miss that. The problem is that too many people these days don't watch with full attention because they're buried in their phones or whatever, so they miss anything that isn't explicitly spelled out in capital letters.

 

[Skipper]

The problem is that too many people these days don't watch with full attention because they're buried in their phones or whatever, so they miss anything that isn't explicitly spelled out in capital letters.

Sure. Streamers have realized this by now and have taken action.

Streamers Want You To Dumb Down Your Film and TV Ideas

I think we can all admit that sometimes when we're watching TV at home, we have our phones out at the same time. After a long day of picketing, I like to toss on Cheers and check my email. It happens. But when I sit down to watch a movie, to really study a story (like I did with the Cheers pilot), I devote all my attention to the screen when I can.

However, streamers aren't making shows or movies for that level of thinking anymore, or, at least, they're trying to be cognizant of that fact. Streamers are advocating for stories that you can understand while only paying half attention.

Casual Viewing
Why Netflix looks like that

Such slipshod filmmaking works for the streaming model, since audiences at home are often barely paying attention. Several screenwriters who’ve worked for the streamer told me a common note from company executives is “have this character announce what they’re doing so that viewers who have this program on in the background can follow along.” (“We spent a day together,” Lohan tells her lover, James, in Irish Wish. “I admit it was a beautiful day filled with dramatic vistas and romantic rain, but that doesn’t give you the right to question my life choices. Tomorrow I’m marrying Paul Kennedy.” “Fine,” he responds. “That will be the last you see of me because after this job is over I’m off to Bolivia to photograph an endangered tree lizard.”)

One tag among Netflix’s thirty-six thousand microgenres offers a suitable name for this kind of dreck: “casual viewing.” Usually reserved for breezy network sitcoms, reality television, and nature documentaries, the category describes much of Netflix’s film catalog — movies that go down best when you’re not paying attention, or as the Hollywood Reporter recently described Atlas, a 2024 sci-fi film starring Jennifer Lopez, “another Netflix movie made to half-watch while doing laundry.” A high-gloss product that dissolves into air. Tide Pod cinema.

 

[CoveTom]

Roddenberry was many good things, but he was also a horndog and misogynist. He wanted sex in everything. What do you think the point of creating Ilia was? Ira Steven Behr talks about how he had to take a meeting with Roddenberry and just how far Roddenberry wanted Behr to go in the script for "Captain's Holiday," which fortunately got scaled back. I mean, in "Justice," we saw yet another planet of people who were just screwing each other all the time. It was quite the obsession Roddenberry had and only the work of other producers and writers that kept it from being more a part of the show than it was. If he could have done "Game of Thrones" level sex on Star Trek, he would have.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The Naked Now retroactively implied that there had always been orgies in the Naked Time.

 

[Christopher]

If he could have done "Game of Thrones" level sex on Star Trek, he would have.

Notably, the one non-Star Trek movie Roddenberry produced was Roger Vadim's dark sex comedy Pretty Maids All in a Row, starring Rock Hudson as a high school teacher who seduced and slept with his "sexually liberated" female students (which was not portrayed as a bad thing) and, oh, turned out to be a serial killler (which was, but not in a very serious manner). The movie was one of the first mainstream films to feature nudity after the MPAA introduced the R rating, although it was actually greatly toned down from the hardcore porn novel it was based on. Hudson's character reminded me very much of Roddenberry in his personality and philosophies, despite being ultimately the villain of the piece. I often think Roddenberry was ambivalent about his own licentious side.

 

[Skipper]

If he could have done "Game of Thrones" level sex on Star Trek, he would have.

I don't know. I mean, if you mean level of explicitness, yes I totally agree. But usually the sex on Game of Thrones is, well, sad. I mean, even when it's consensual sex, the image that comes back is always a little sad. Bleak. Voyeuristic.

At least Roddenberry had a sunny and cheerful vision of sex. When the characters talk about sex they are always cheerful and smiling. It is presented as something pleasant. In GoT instead it seems that the characters wait for the time to have sex with a sense of dreadful inevitability.

 

[Vger23]

I think it was pretty clear.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Dunno about no literal orgies, but with the amount of casual sex going on in the episode, there may as well have been.

The very word conjures up an image of a banner in History of the World, Part I, advertising an orgy as being "first served, first come."

 

[tharpdevenport]

The orgies are where the original "Riker Maneuver" appeared...

 

[Allyn Gibson]

So I think you have it backward. If they only implied orgies rather than stating it outright, it's not because it was the '80s, since a lot of '80s shows like nighttime soaps, sitcoms, and pay-cable series freely embraced sexual themes. Rather, it was because TNG was aimed at a more general audience rather than an adult audience, though it was more adult in its subject matter than a "family show" would've been.

For example, I generally think of Riker and Troi as two pieces in a polycule, but there's no way that they could have been depicted that way in the 80s and 90s. Nope, heteronormative serial monogamy for those two!

I also think Riker regularly wore the skant, we just never saw it.

 

[Qonundrum]

This is a point that bizarrely came up in the thread Was TNG considered a "family tv show" at the time? And anyway, what does "family tv show" mean?

I jokingly said that it didn't seem like it was really written for children since already in the second episode we had space orgies. To my surprise, someone asked what I was talking about. Now, from my memory, obviously no one had mentioned the orgies (it was the 80s after all!), but hey! The first victims were found naked together in a room. Data and Tasha were doing naughty things. Even Picard and Beverly were all horny. It seemed obvious to me that with the loss of inhibitions in other parts of the spaceship there would be non-stop group sex. But it seems that it was not so obvious to everyone!

So my question is: do you think the writers wanted to make it clear that orgies were happening at that moment on the ship but obviously couldn't say it clearly, or is it just the product of my sick mind?

There's one scene that all but shows man-bits, which was daring in 1987 - albeit superficially as the story feels too much a retread of "The Naked Now" but only to make it EDGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY! It's really more LAUGHABLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY BAAAAAAD! A missed opportunity for sure, but could the 80s handle the level of depth and maturity in "The Naked Time"?

Season 1 definitely was "playing the field of tropes", from family-friendly, to "how to make a family, so to speak". As if people never figured out how to do it without a tv show to assist, but before I digress...

A few weeks later, we get "When the Bough Breaks", an almost too-kid-friendly outing.

Then comes "Justice" where, in an attempt to be the best of both worlds sorta, and the disjointed moment is a handful of lines apart in the very same scene no less, we get dialogue about bringing kids down to the planet along with "they make love with the drop of a hat. Any hat."

Probably, in the 24th century, all diseases have perfect cures too.

 

[Tallguy]

Incidentally, in the same thread it was pointed out to me that nowhere in Captain's Holiday is it stated that exposing a Horga'hn is an explicit declaration of sexual availability.

Picard does not literally say he is annoyed either. But he is.

 

[tharpdevenport]

Probably, in the 24th century, all diseases have perfect cures too.

Weeelll, they still haven't cured fatness or baldness, sooooo.....

 

[Tallguy]

Weeelll, they still haven't cured fatness or baldness, sooooo.....

"It's a choice." I think that Picard really wants hair but feels societal pressure to "be more advanced" and "not care about that sort of thing" so he doesn't avail himself of Shatnerol Hair Restorer.

 

[Qonundrum]

Weeelll, they still haven't cured fatness or baldness, sooooo.....

One difference is that those are genetic predispositions not always affected by external stimuli, plus the franchise goes back and forth between "you can't genetically manipulate" and "go right ahead, tinker away" depending on episode and/or spinoff. For the latter, some treatments can potentially help. The former's a lot more complex than "ingest fewer calories" (which can help to an extent, noting that the body does try to keep the fat, hence all those articles in search engine results using keywords like "Why fat is stubborn", never mind other external stimuli such as stress, etc, that also tie into individuals' genetic makeups. How to tailor perfect results for each individual wasn't sussed out by the 24th century either. But cootie-killing drugs are just as "wordlessly implied" as much as "free love" still prevailing, or else we'd have a spectacular season 5 episode discussing superbugs as a follow-up to "The Game", but "superbugs" weren't much of a thing back then either, even the notion was first coined in the 1950s... or keep sex as a topic best left to other shows, if every show was the same then it'd get boring pretty quick. Then again, do modern shows like "Sens8" cover the topic? Or need to?

 

[Qonundrum]

"It's a choice." I think that Picard really wants hair but feels societal pressure to "be more advanced" and "not care about that sort of thing" so he doesn't avail himself of Shatnerol Hair Restorer.

Everyone wants to be 30 again, that seems inevitable. Whatever this "social pressure" is, Picard also adheres to the phrase "to thine own self be true". It may have been out of nowhere, but Crusher's line in "Insurrection" was still impressively brief and allowed audiences time to think about it instead of it being preached like how half of season 5 was. Whether or not they thought into it or giggled, or both, or other, is up to them.