Other people, Tallguy. Not us.
What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?
- Thread starter Amasov
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I was just watching the beginning of The Ultimate Computer. McCoy: "Did you see the love light in Spock's eyes? The right computer finally came along."
So for all of these years there have been people who have defended Dr. Pulaski's treatment of Data by saying "Hey, you never had a problem with Bones and Spock!"
First off I'll still say that the dynamic is different. I think there is slightly more of a power imbalance between Pulaski and Data. Also Pulaski is literally invalidating Data's agency as a conscious being. She gets angry when Data talks back the way someone might to someone else's misbehaving pet! Or more literally like when your printer acts up.
BUT: I think Leonard H. McCoy might just be a jerk. This isn't gentle or friendly ribbing. He's just being mean. In this scene he's not even doing it to get a reaction out of Spock!
And this is by far the worst offense. Galileo 7 lets its plot drive the characters in ways that aren't always natural to them. Even early Spock is not usually that clueless. But McCoy being a nattering pest (at best) just for the purpose of getting a rise out of Spock? We'll see that again throughout. I know The Tholian Web is beloved and is considered one the "good" season 3 episodes but McCoy more or less takes it off of my list.
Now there are episodes (Bread and Circuses?) where McCoy really seems to be practicing "tough love" to get Spock to open up to his whole self. (Star Trek: The Motion Picture? Certainly.) And Amok Time should dispel any doubts about Spock's positive "feelings" towards McCoy.
But there are enough other circumstances where McCoy is clearly the instigator of an out of nowhere attack on Spock and it's often because he's just being mean!
You know in Day of the Dove when everyone goes all war crazy and even Scott helps gang up on Spock? Does McCoy seem all that different?
So for all of these years there have been people who have defended Dr. Pulaski's treatment of Data by saying "Hey, you never had a problem with Bones and Spock!"
First off I'll still say that the dynamic is different. I think there is slightly more of a power imbalance between Pulaski and Data. Also Pulaski is literally invalidating Data's agency as a conscious being. She gets angry when Data talks back the way someone might to someone else's misbehaving pet! Or more literally like when your printer acts up.
BUT: I think Leonard H. McCoy might just be a jerk. This isn't gentle or friendly ribbing. He's just being mean. In this scene he's not even doing it to get a reaction out of Spock!
And this is by far the worst offense. Galileo 7 lets its plot drive the characters in ways that aren't always natural to them. Even early Spock is not usually that clueless. But McCoy being a nattering pest (at best) just for the purpose of getting a rise out of Spock? We'll see that again throughout. I know The Tholian Web is beloved and is considered one the "good" season 3 episodes but McCoy more or less takes it off of my list.
Now there are episodes (Bread and Circuses?) where McCoy really seems to be practicing "tough love" to get Spock to open up to his whole self. (Star Trek: The Motion Picture? Certainly.) And Amok Time should dispel any doubts about Spock's positive "feelings" towards McCoy.
But there are enough other circumstances where McCoy is clearly the instigator of an out of nowhere attack on Spock and it's often because he's just being mean!
You know in Day of the Dove when everyone goes all war crazy and even Scott helps gang up on Spock? Does McCoy seem all that different?
Do you think it might be McCoy's fear of computers and automation taking over? So he reaches for the familiar target, whom he can fire at, rather than progress, which he can't?
Imagine if Admiral McCoy lives long enough to meet "The Doctor".
I wonder what his thoughts of him would be.
The new "Most Famous Doctor", is a HoloProgram that became sentient.
McCoy was a grumpy-ass luddite crank but I think, for the most part his jabbing at Spock was always out of friendship (and not just a little bit out of frustration) with him, and developed over time since McCoy's first arrival on Enterprise. He was needed in the "Big Three" to inject a purely human quality, in a way that Kirk was never allowed to be as a starship commander. Did he go too far sometimes? Sure. Did most of his outbursts stem from noble intent? I believe so. What you saw is always what you got with him without any airs or pretenses. Based on what I've read in books and heard at conventions, I daresay the real Deforest Kelley was viewed in a similar fashion IRL, maybe without as much explosiveness towards others he considered friends, though.
Pulaski was just vile and mean towards Data. Nothing against Diana Muldaur, mind you - she was put in a very difficult position and I think she did the best she could with the dreck she was given to work with. I get that the writers were trying to recapture that "chemistry" that Spock & Bones had, but they rushed it as if she had always been there, and it was ridiculously heavy handed (as was the whole backstory of Crusher being replaced by her due to BTS production politics and other awkwardness). I mean, FFS, Pulaski even referred to Data as an "it" at least one time that I can remember (maybe twice?), as if he was a damn toaster oven sitting on the countertop! Tallguy's comment about Pulaski constantly invalidating Data's agency was 100% dead-on and extremely distasteful (Pulaski's attitude, BTW, not the actual comment!
). She was the newcomer/outsider that tried to act like she owned the place without any kind of settling-in period to develop the relationships. They tried to soften her edges with things like Worf's Klingon Tea Ceremony and whatnot, but by that point, there really wasn't any point and everyone was clamoring to get Crusher back. And what happened? She came back. That whole situation was just such a waste of effort, IMO.
Watching TOS in recent months, I have to agree. Sometimes, he's just being an ass. Other times... he really skirts the bigot line.
But that's part of what makes McCoy so engaging and human. We know he's a deeply decent person, but his flaws come to the surface and he still manages to not become the things he sometimes says. He took his father off life support right before a cure for his illness was found and had to suffer through a divorce. People such as that might be more susceptible to being grouchy dicks who say unpleasant things they don't necessarily mean.
I think McCoy's sparring with Spock could be motivated by McCoy believing that Spock is denying his humanity: McCoy is trying to push Spock to acknowledge that emotional feelings matter and that logic is not the be-all and end-all.
Could be a veiled warning? Which is why we later have the scene of Spock showing loyalty to his human commander.
Being a psychologist, McCoy should’ve known better, that Spock would find his humanity in his own time.
The "McCoy's just a cuddly racist" thing never holds much weight. It's clear he's not a bigot, even if his angry jibes at Spock suggest otherwise. We're just viewing DeForest Kelley's and Karl Urban's dialogue from the perspective of people on 21st century Earth who've been conditioned to believe "pointy-eared hobgoblin" or "green-blooded Vulcan" are the incontestible signs of being a racist asshole.
Perhaps McCoy was motivated by his role as a ship's doctor. A personal journey is fine, if the subject doesn't have hundreds, thousands, millions, even billions of lives depending upon him. If McCoy is pushing Spock to be the best he can be, and not reduce the lives around him to terms in an equation, then it's to save lives, to produce better outcomes.
McCoy and Spock are basically brothers, with all the teasing and arguments that comes with that. If you want to see how they really feel about each other, check the episodes where Kirk has to choose which of them goes on the suicide mission or gets tortured and watch them fight each other to be the one that suffers.
So.....
This is, first, absolutely true.
I work with someone from an era not far from TOS. A man, ofcourse. During this time period, men showing affection was a 100% no go. We do not do this. What they, back then, called gentle ribbing or 'having fun' was a show of affection. They did not know how to actually show care for someone they liked. From their point of view, the people that should be giving love only gave harsh words that would, according to the word givers, make a person aware of 'I think you're cool'.
I do not mean to say that the behavior of people back then was ok. Or even those doing now, for fuck suck I suffer it daily and I'm working on quiting that job. But to THEM, it's love. Fucked up as is it, it was. And this is why I never really liked McCoy. Because even though I get the why, I dislike the how..
Every bit of this. Even when McCoy is legit angry at Spock and says something questionable he's doing it out of his love and respect for somebody who's basically a blood brother and member of his personal family. He never tries to hurt Spock's feelings even if he actually could and elicit a visceral emotional outburst from him.
We could also view McCoy's occasional seemingly harsh comments to Spock through the lens of Spock's supposed lack of feelings. If Spock doesn't have feelings, then no remark could hurt them. This is why I'm tempted to interpret some of McCoy's comments as an attempt to goad Spock into acknowledging that he really does feel the hurt.
I think Spock's pretense that he doesn't feel a thing annoys McCoy.
I think Spock's pretense that he doesn't feel a thing annoys McCoy.
If McCoy is a racist, he clearly isn't very good at it. He saves Spock's life numerous times.
We know from deleted script dialogue from TFF that McCoy likes to playfully troll Spock to see what reaction he'll get. The "marshmelon" bit from that movie was originally the result of Spock doing library computer research and finding a file on Earth campfire customs that McCoy had deliberately altered for laughs. With that removed from the onscreen dialogue and no fun reveal of McCoy's tomfoolery it just seems like post-resurrection Spock is just more clueless than he was before his death, but in my head canon it's an example of McCoy loving and teasing Spock like he always had going back to their earliest days on the first Enterprise.
I wonder if that was in the DC Comics adaptation? I clearly remember there being some dialogue to that effect, coming from somewhere?
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