We saw it yesterday. I went in expecting to be entertained and I was. Hubby enjoyed it a bit less - he felt it was predictable.
Spoilers Captain America: Brave New World grade and discussion thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
- Start date
Enjoyable but sloppy. I wanted to love this film. I wanted this film to be another Winter Soldier. This film wanted to be another Winter Soldier.
Unfortunately, Brave New World isn't remotely anything like The Winter Soldier.
The film has a bunch of great ideas (the fragility of superheroes, Celestial Island yielding an adamantium resource race, The Leader's complex web of revenge involving sleeper agents) but they're poorly executed. It didn't help that the trailers revealed all of the surprises (aside from the Bucky cameo), nor did it help that the film was long delayed and retooled (and clearly not just by the strikes), which often times you can tell when and where something was added later (Sidewinder's final scene was especially bad in this regard).
The core theme of Sam's fragility as an unpowered Captain America is a good one but I wish it had been explored more beyond the confines of Bucky's surprise cameo, Joaquim's hospital bedside, Sterns laughing at the prospect of Sam fighting the Red Hulk, and how Sam's vibranium-laced suit is the only thing that prevents him from being killed instantly at any given moment. The fact that most of those happened in the third act on their own highlights even more how sloppy this film was produced. This is a fascinating idea that was often talked about in this very forum for years leading up to this film's release and yet Brave New World barely did anything with the idea, and that's sorely disappointing.
While I appreciate the film's efforts to make Ross a redemptive character, I don't think it's a path that he has earned. Sam's unrelenting belief in seeing good in all people is precisely why Steve chose Sam to take the shield, so I can I understand why Sam tried to see good in Ross, but I simply couldn't. Yes, Ross was a victim of Sterns' revenge but it was not unjustified revenge. Ross did imprison Sterns after framing him for Ross' poor decisions regarding Blonsky's actions, then Ross made Sterns' condition far worse so Ross could enslave Sterns to do Ross' bidding. But above all else, I have to circle back to the point that's been raised many times since this film was first announced to feature President Ross (and potentially Red Hulk): How can one possibly explore a Ross redemption without Bruce Banner in the picture?
I was disappointed in the overall arc for Isaiah Bradley. The film wanted to make a big deal of him facing injustice once again by unwillingly becoming a sleeper agent, but ultimately did nothing with it. Even though it went along just fine with the paper-thin White House staffing structure and the weird aerial fighting over Celestial Island, Bradley's immediate release for an attempted assassination of a president (future Red Hulk or otherwise) was nonetheless painful to watch play out.
Lastly, I have to say I was greatly amused how annoyed people in my audience became when there was no mid-credits scene. The outrage was real. Not quite as bad as the no post-credits scene for Wakanda Forever but still pretty up there.
Unfortunately, Brave New World isn't remotely anything like The Winter Soldier.
The film has a bunch of great ideas (the fragility of superheroes, Celestial Island yielding an adamantium resource race, The Leader's complex web of revenge involving sleeper agents) but they're poorly executed. It didn't help that the trailers revealed all of the surprises (aside from the Bucky cameo), nor did it help that the film was long delayed and retooled (and clearly not just by the strikes), which often times you can tell when and where something was added later (Sidewinder's final scene was especially bad in this regard).
The core theme of Sam's fragility as an unpowered Captain America is a good one but I wish it had been explored more beyond the confines of Bucky's surprise cameo, Joaquim's hospital bedside, Sterns laughing at the prospect of Sam fighting the Red Hulk, and how Sam's vibranium-laced suit is the only thing that prevents him from being killed instantly at any given moment. The fact that most of those happened in the third act on their own highlights even more how sloppy this film was produced. This is a fascinating idea that was often talked about in this very forum for years leading up to this film's release and yet Brave New World barely did anything with the idea, and that's sorely disappointing.
While I appreciate the film's efforts to make Ross a redemptive character, I don't think it's a path that he has earned. Sam's unrelenting belief in seeing good in all people is precisely why Steve chose Sam to take the shield, so I can I understand why Sam tried to see good in Ross, but I simply couldn't. Yes, Ross was a victim of Sterns' revenge but it was not unjustified revenge. Ross did imprison Sterns after framing him for Ross' poor decisions regarding Blonsky's actions, then Ross made Sterns' condition far worse so Ross could enslave Sterns to do Ross' bidding. But above all else, I have to circle back to the point that's been raised many times since this film was first announced to feature President Ross (and potentially Red Hulk): How can one possibly explore a Ross redemption without Bruce Banner in the picture?
I was disappointed in the overall arc for Isaiah Bradley. The film wanted to make a big deal of him facing injustice once again by unwillingly becoming a sleeper agent, but ultimately did nothing with it. Even though it went along just fine with the paper-thin White House staffing structure and the weird aerial fighting over Celestial Island, Bradley's immediate release for an attempted assassination of a president (future Red Hulk or otherwise) was nonetheless painful to watch play out.
Lastly, I have to say I was greatly amused how annoyed people in my audience became when there was no mid-credits scene. The outrage was real. Not quite as bad as the no post-credits scene for Wakanda Forever but still pretty up there.
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And maybe a secret extraction of adamantium for a certain 200 year old soldier
It occurs to me that any recast of Wolverine for the MCU would have to have the adamantium added to his skeleton much later in his life than the comics would indicate.
It’s been years, when did he get the adamantium in the comics? Weapon X experiment, but when was that?
In the comics, after he had the adamantium added to a skeleton, he went nuts and wandered the wilderness for years before being found by the Hudsons.
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Got back from a show (BNW) and dinner. Really enjoyed it.
I have a few minor world-building quibbles (one of which, the end of the movie clarified). Also a few quibbles as someone who lives in the D.C. metro area. Great performances all around from Mackie, Stan, Tyler and Ford (among others).
Some of the political thriller elements sometimes hewed a little too closely to CA:TWS, but that's not really a problem in my book. Good to see 15+ year old The Incredible Hulk elements come back into play.
People hesitant to see this film based on other reviews should ignore them and view it and judge it on their own. It is fun (although probably too "woke" for some people, which it really isn't). I give it a solid A.
I have a few minor world-building quibbles (one of which, the end of the movie clarified). Also a few quibbles as someone who lives in the D.C. metro area. Great performances all around from Mackie, Stan, Tyler and Ford (among others).
Some of the political thriller elements sometimes hewed a little too closely to CA:TWS, but that's not really a problem in my book. Good to see 15+ year old The Incredible Hulk elements come back into play.
People hesitant to see this film based on other reviews should ignore them and view it and judge it on their own. It is fun (although probably too "woke" for some people, which it really isn't). I give it a solid A.
I just got back from watching it with a buddy and eating dinner.
From both me & my buddies grading of the movie:
I give it a Solid B grade.
He gives it a B+ grade, but he's more of a comic book casual, just watches the MCU movies from a more normie perspective.
The movie felt like a standard "Police/Detective Procedural", very by the book detective work, but mixed in with Marvel Super Hero Action Pieces.
Overall, it's very enjoy-able, nothing "Earth Shattering". But that's the issue with following really good movies like the previous 2x Captain America's & the rest of the MCU.
It's a very hard act to follow, especially with a new lead as Captain America.
All the acting was fine, everybody did a good job with their characters.
Anthony Mackie makes a great "Sam Wilson / Captain America" IMO.
I find it equally as compelling that a normal human with Tech/Gadgets is portraying Captain America as the original one did.
Each one has their own unique qualities.
The CG was solid, nothing ground breaking, but everything was well done.
The action was good, every bit made sense given the powers/tools that comes with the new Captain America.
I swear his 2x Red Wing Drones are OP as heck.
The amount of tools / problem solving gear he packs into his kit is crazy.
Hopefully him & Falcon both get Vibranium Wings the next time they show up, and have more Drones for both of them.
From both me & my buddies grading of the movie:
I give it a Solid B grade.
He gives it a B+ grade, but he's more of a comic book casual, just watches the MCU movies from a more normie perspective.
The movie felt like a standard "Police/Detective Procedural", very by the book detective work, but mixed in with Marvel Super Hero Action Pieces.
Overall, it's very enjoy-able, nothing "Earth Shattering". But that's the issue with following really good movies like the previous 2x Captain America's & the rest of the MCU.
It's a very hard act to follow, especially with a new lead as Captain America.
All the acting was fine, everybody did a good job with their characters.
Anthony Mackie makes a great "Sam Wilson / Captain America" IMO.
I find it equally as compelling that a normal human with Tech/Gadgets is portraying Captain America as the original one did.
Each one has their own unique qualities.
The CG was solid, nothing ground breaking, but everything was well done.
The action was good, every bit made sense given the powers/tools that comes with the new Captain America.
I swear his 2x Red Wing Drones are OP as heck.
The amount of tools / problem solving gear he packs into his kit is crazy.
Hopefully him & Falcon both get Vibranium Wings the next time they show up, and have more Drones for both of them.
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How old he was originally was never really specified, but the current consensus is that he must have been at least 100 or so (comics) and as much as 150 (FoX-Men).
Originally, probably the early seventies based on his first appearance in 1974.
Pretty sure it was weeks to months, not years.
Overall, Brave New World’s international opening is 4% ahead of Captain America: The Winter Soldier in like-for-like markets at current rates (and excluding China).
I imagine someone will cook up some cherry-picked charts trying to dispute this...
I imagine someone will cook up some cherry-picked charts trying to dispute this...
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Full review coming in a few days, but the "mixed" sentiment from others is generally where I stand with this film, along with what I believe was Marvel Studios/Disney caving to certain outside influences. The known cut plotlines should have been retained, and I feel that hurt this kind of film.
It was OK. I liked it better than any MCU film I have seen since Shang Chi. (Although The Marvels is woefully underrated.) It didn't have the lightness of touch that the good MCU was best at. Even The Winter Soldier could do the tap dancing.
This was an unexpected sequel to The Incredible Hulk. And The Eternals? Who remembered THAT?
But... How exactly is Sam not like Steve Rogers? Or Natasha Romanoff? Why can he ping pong the shield around like he's Clint Barton?
They could have really leaned in to the fact that he's NOT Steve Rogers. But on screen, ability-wise, they don't seen that different other than Sam can't hold down a helicopter. But he seems to able to get knocked around just as much as Bucky and Steve.
Also: (and I had some of these questions coming out of Falcon and the Winter Soldier as well) We CAN make more super soldiers now? Captain America: The First Avenger as well as Agent Carter season one seemed pretty dead set that we can't. To say nothing of The Incredible Hulk. What the heck was Bruce trying to do if they already had a super soldier serum?
The MCU isn't back yet, but boy did I like this more than Ant-Man 3 and Guardians 3.
This was an unexpected sequel to The Incredible Hulk. And The Eternals? Who remembered THAT?
But... How exactly is Sam not like Steve Rogers? Or Natasha Romanoff? Why can he ping pong the shield around like he's Clint Barton?
They could have really leaned in to the fact that he's NOT Steve Rogers. But on screen, ability-wise, they don't seen that different other than Sam can't hold down a helicopter. But he seems to able to get knocked around just as much as Bucky and Steve.
Also: (and I had some of these questions coming out of Falcon and the Winter Soldier as well) We CAN make more super soldiers now? Captain America: The First Avenger as well as Agent Carter season one seemed pretty dead set that we can't. To say nothing of The Incredible Hulk. What the heck was Bruce trying to do if they already had a super soldier serum?
The MCU isn't back yet, but boy did I like this more than Ant-Man 3 and Guardians 3.
I really enjoyed Scarlett Johannsen and Chris Evans tapdancing. On an escalator.
In Cleveland!
How Captain America: Brave New World’s Box Office Compares To MCU Flops
While critic reviews and the movie’s Cinemascore spell bad news for Captain America: Brave New World in general, we now have actual box office numbers.
www.forbes.com
