• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Spoilers STAR TREK: SECTION 31 - Grading & Discussion

Rate the movie...

  • 10 - Excellent!

    Votes: 4 1.7%
  • 9

    Votes: 6 2.5%
  • 8

    Votes: 11 4.7%
  • 7

    Votes: 20 8.5%
  • 6

    Votes: 31 13.1%
  • 5

    Votes: 36 15.3%
  • 4

    Votes: 16 6.8%
  • 3

    Votes: 26 11.0%
  • 2

    Votes: 27 11.4%
  • 1 - Terrible!

    Votes: 59 25.0%

  • Total voters
    236
Oh, hardee-har-har. While there is much truth to that old Onion video about fan reaction to Trek XI, it doesn't explain all the entertaining and well made product that has been positively received in recent years.

Wow. Such hyperbole.

2/10 implies there was something there you enjoyed. If you really hated it as much as you claim, you'd have given it a zero.
Still fits though, if it looks good, and doesn't have wooden looking bulkheads many will reject it. Lol

While the movie is action- oriented it's not meaningless, and the characters and acting are good and the humor is fun without being over the top like the latter Marvel movies.
 
I think they took this as their cue to put out a negative review so they don't look like shills. If it's so different from usual Starfleet Trek they won't get the backlash, and they can still say: "see, we're not shills."

No. If you actually read the reviews, you'd see that they were far more than just 'Section 31 sux!' They made it quite clear just why the movie did not work.
 
A lot of people going on about quality are the same peoiple saying that Lower Decks, which I feel ranges from outright awful to barely tolerable, is the greatest thing to happen to Trek since Patrick Stewart or whatever, so I don't really automatically listen to those who have self-declared themselves to be the proclaimer of what's good quality and what's not (no offense intended)
 
Exactly. It wouldn’t have been greenlit or produced if everyone thought it was a turkey on sight.

Now how they're going to feel about it after all the reviews have essentially panned it is another matter. Berman and Braga sincerely thought that they were making a great episode and a tribute for the fans when they made TATV. Only after the fact did they realize what a mistake it was. I see that happening here as well.
 
Nonsense, it was very much a Trek movie. The themes were trek, the references were trek. It was trek.

So you didn't see a starship, or uniforms? Too bad huh? Such a narrow definition of Trek.
It certainly is, so I wonder why you’re applying it? I haven’t. But you know, knock yourself out.

The references (only) were Trek. Yes, that is narrow. Why are you shooting at your foot?

The themes? Just the one line. That’s not enough.
 
Now how they're going to feel about it after all the reviews have essentially panned it is another matter. Berman and Braga sincerely thought that they were making a great episode and a tribute for the fans when they made TATV. Only after the fact did they realize what a mistake it was. I see that happening here as well.
That's completely different and a false equivalency. TATV was stomping on Scott Bakula's and the other Enterprise cast members' work and shoved in Frakes and Sirtis to overshadow them in what was supposed to be their grand finale moment. Who exactly is the Section 31 movie stomping or overshadowing? As far as I can see just fans who are angry that it didn't meet their shifting expectations (which is arguable for practically every Trek work). You're telling me S31 was worse than Threshold? I'll just say it--it isn't, and add to the fact that it's not stomping on any real world people's work like TATV, and there's no reason it should have anywhere near TATV's bad reputation other than some people's belief it should have it.
 
O1ASf2m.png


"spy thriller, a genre not often utilized by Star Trek"

????

Say What?


"deep, philosophical exploration of character, Georgiou"

"deep, philosophical exploration" ???????????????

What movie was she watching?
 
That's completely different and a false equivalency. TATV was stomping on Scott Bakula's and the other Enterprise cast members' work and shoved in Frakes and Sirtis to overshadow them in what was supposed to be their grand finale moment. Who exactly is the Section 31 movie stomping or overshadowing? As far as I can see just fans who are angry that it didn't meet their shifting expectations (which is arguable for practically every Trek work). You're telling me S31 was worse than Threshold? I'll just say it--it isn't, and add to the fact that it's not stomping on any real world people's work like TATV, and there's no reason it should have anywhere near TATV's bad reputation other than some people's belief it should have it.

No offense, but I'm not sure what your point is here. I'm saying that the people who made the Section 31 movie thought it was good. Just like Berman & Braga thought TATV was good. Whatever 'stomping' or 'overshadowing' happened is pointless to the discussion. And in both cases, the response to those productions proved that they were incorrect in their assumptions.
 
I didn't finish that popcorn, Twizzlers, or Coke. Barely had any. First, my body is glad about that. Second, I'm glad because now I have plenty for when I re-watch Tomorrow Never Dies today, and other much better Michelle Yeoh movies, since I still have the day off.

And, like I said, I discovered some good Michelle Yeoh movies along the way. I'll share my capsule reviews of them right here, if you want to check any of them out. They're all pre-1997.

These are all films where Michelle Yeoh had a major role. Note that she's is credited as "Michelle Khan" up until 1993.

"Yes, Madam" (1985)

I don't know how many of you have seen any of Michelle Yeoh's early work, pre-Hollywood, pretty much anything before Tomorrow Never Dies, but I never had, so this was my first time watching Yes, Madam. If you like silly foreign '80s action movies that have been dubbed, you'll like this. If that's not your thing, then I don't recommend it. I liked it, but it's not anything great. I enjoyed it for what it was.

Michelle Yeoh plays a cop, who's partnered with another female cop from Britain who's been sent to Hong Kong. They have track down a criminal who works for a pair of white-collar seemingly above-board crime bosses that nothing can be pinned on. In the process, Michelle Yeoh's character and her buddy-cop are aided by two comic relief characters who got mixed up with the criminals as they go after the bad guys. Hijinks ensue.

The British female cop is tough as nails and takes crap from no one. Michelle Yeoh's cop, on the other hand, is the Good Cop who's as pleasant as she is professional, but can still kick your ass.

Better still, considering this was made in the '80s, I'm impressed they didn't make Michelle Yeoh's character a love interest. A cop and a martial artist who just happens to be a woman, and having it be portrayed in a positive light.

The ending, if you haven't seen it, is totally crazy. I'm not going to give it away. That's all I really have to say about Yes, Madam. I enjoyed watching this. It's as far from Star Trek as you can get. So, it's a nice change-of-pace and I look forward seeing more of Michelle Yeoh's work.

"Royal Warriors" (1986)

This is definitely a far better action vehicle for Michelle Yeoh. She kicks ass and takes names in this film. It's a revenge story, on multiple fronts, even though the story is really just there to set-up context for all amazingly choreographed action scenes. It doesn't the goofy craziness of Yes, Madam, but it does have some crazy over-the-top Hong Kong action. Michelle Yeoh's totally in her element and her character is the one who saves the day and stops the Bad Guy.

I was hoping to find a dubbed version of Royal Warriors on Tubi, but it kept taking me to another Michelle Yeoh film, Magnificent Warriors. So, I ended up watching Royal Warriors on Darkroom and in Cantonese with English subtitles. If you're into '80s Hong Kong action films, you'll love this one.

"Magnificent Warriors" (1987)

Back to Tubi for this one. Magnificent Warriors is a step up for Michelle Yeoh. This film is a period piece, making this her highest profile movie up to this point. It takes place in the 1930s and a group of fighters, led by Michelle Yeoh's character, have to stand up to the Japanese military. Once again, the actual plot is secondary to the fight scenes and the pyrotechnics, but Michelle Yeoh's charisma, personality, and martial arts stand out.

My favorite scene is when Michelle Yeoh's character and two others are captured and taken prisoner. They're about to be executed, and none of these characters knew each other before, but they suddenly know all about each other, their lives, and their backstories. It's pretty funny. But it would never work in the United States where everything is taken so literally.

After Magnificent Warriors, Michelle Yeoh got married and retired from acting. She doesn't do any more movies for the next five years. After her marriage ends, she gets back into acting and makes up for lost time in a big way. But that's for another time.

"Super Cop" (1992)

Michelle Yeoh's first film in five years, but it's really a Jackie Chan film that Michelle Yeoh just happens to be in. She plays a no-nonsense military officer to Jackie Chan's police officer. It's more of a steppingstone, from Michelle Yeoh's end, to get her back into show business. What they have here is something that was avoided in her '80s films I've watched. In one scene, Michelle Yeoh's character wants to talk business, but Jackie Chan tries to flirt with her. Luckily, she's not having any of it.

There's a Super Cop 2, but I'll swing around back to it later.

"The Heroic Trio" (1993)

This film is what I consider to be Michelle Yeoh's true comeback. This is the first time she's credited as Michelle Yeoh instead of "Michelle Khan". She plays one of three superheroines who rescue babies from an evil and all-powerful kidnapper. It's quirky but fun. The trio of heroines are referred to as wonder women, they have past histories and have saved each other from death. I enjoyed this more than most 21st Century superhero movies I've seen.

"Holy Weapon" (1993)

This is the first of these movies I'm watching that I'm not enjoying on any level. I shut it off part-way through. It takes place sometime during the Qing Dynasty (which lasted from 1644 to 1912), the violence is so over-the-top I can't take it seriously, and there's no real story. Michelle Yeoh is in the film, but she's not in it that much from what I can tell. I'm not interested enough in it to continue. At least not sober and not while I have other and better things to watch. But... Severed limbs, horses' heads being chopped off, human bodies exploding as they collide into each other in the air with blood splattering everywhere? What's not to love?

"Wonder Seven" (1994)

I can't find this movie anywhere available for streaming. I checked multiple platforms. Regardless, it's a movie I want to talk about it for reasons that will become clear. I'll quote the description of it from Plex TV:

"Wonder Seven, a secret group of well-trained government agents in China, has been assigned a case of a computer disc robbery. At first everything seems to go smooth, when a disastrous national conspiracy unravels."
Sounds like a precursor to Section 31. That being the case, I can see why Michelle Yeoh would be interested in a project like S31. I wish there was a way for me to watch Wonder Seven, but it wasn't meant to be, so moving along...

"Wing Chun" (1994)

Like the Holy Weapon, this movie takes place during the Qing Dynasty, but it's an action-comedy instead a bad action movie, and it's a much better showcase of Michelle Yeoh's talents. In particular, her abilities as a martial artist are on full display. With a bo, with a sword, acrobatics, kickboxing, and hand-to-hand fighting. She has an amazing speed and agility. Great defensive, great offensive.

One common thing in the period pieces is they always observe Michelle Yeoh's characters are wearing men's clothing. She's also underestimated as a fighter by the men until she proves them wrong. On the other end, in this movie, other women characters are asking her why she doesn't wear women's clothes, and they think she should be more feminine. Although, in the end, her character does end up getting married.

I think it's possible the creators used to the period piece to mask similar spoken or unspoken attitudes in the Present Day.

In several of her films, period piece or not, she teams up with a group of characters. Sometimes all women. Amazing for the time, and I'm starting to think Michelle Yeoh is sort of like Hong Kong's Sigourney Weaver or Linda Hamilton. The action star who's a woman, standing out in a genre dominated by men.

"Stunt Woman" (1996)

This was Michelle Yeoh's best film up to this point. She plans a stuntwoman on set while they're trying to make a movie. It shows all set-ups, and everything involved in putting together stunt scenes for the movie-within-a-movie. Within this film is also a true love story for Michelle Yeoh's character that doesn't work out and feels believable. I don't want to spoil the plot in case anyone ever decides to watch it, but it shows how dangerous performing stunts can be. And in certain shots, you can get a real sense of dread. Especially when jumping from heights.

Unlike with Michelle Yeoh's other movies, this one is slower paced, isn't all action for the most part, except when stunts are performed, and we see some of the film crewmember's lives as well. Again, I won't spoil anything, but we to see the director's family life and that weaves into the story as well.

Martial arts isn't the only thing on display here. Stunt Woman spotlights Michelle Yeoh's acting ability in a dramatic role that's more grounded than she had done up to this point in movies where action was the main focus. You really get the sense in here that Michelle Yeoh wanted to spread her wings. And, if you don't mind reading subtitles, I recommend it.

Then I'm watching Crouching Tiger. Never seen that one before.

Between that and Tomorrow Never Dies, I'll get the bad taste of Section 31 out of my mouth.
 
Last edited:
No offense, but I'm not sure what your point is here. I'm saying that the people who made the Section 31 movie thought it was good. Just like Berman & Braga thought TATV was good. Whatever 'stomping' or 'overshadowing' happened is pointless to the discussion. And in both cases, the response to those productions proved that they were incorrect in their assumptions.
We saw what the critic reviews were like but it hasn't even been 24 hours since the movie aired. Empire Strikes Back got bad critic reviews too (you should read Judith Martin aka Miss Manners' review)
 
I mean, can you imagine if the modern day internet was around in 1988?
"TFF is a disaster! TNG sucks! The Star Trek franchise is doomed! Watch my three hour YouTube video for all the details."

I wish I’d saved the link, maybe someone else has it, but in another thread a few years ago somebody posted a link to an archive of usenet discussing Trek back in 1991 or 1992. The negativity was astounding (and this back back in one of Trek’s golden eras): they’d just announced the title of DS9 and people were saying it sounded absolutely shit and they wouldn’t watch it, while also complaining that s5 of TNG had been rubbish so far and some even took potshots at ST VI saying it wasn’t real Star Trek and was part of the rot of the franchise.

It was astounding. The shows themselves change but fans don’t
 
Finished the rest of this:
  • I still say this is still very Star Trek. Very average, sometimes downright shitty Star Trek, but Star Trek nonetheless
  • Zeph and Mille's deaths were unsurprising
  • I will admit I was actually a little surprised that Fuzz was the mole
  • The action sequences were a little too frenetic for my tastes
  • There were a few funny moments
  • I actually like the crew once you got rid of Zeph, Mille and Fuzz
  • San being alive? I mean, how cliche can we get?
  • "Chaos is my friends with benefits." :D
  • Looks like they borrowed the flamethrowers from Disco for this production and got some mileage out of them
  • Phillipa's win against San was a way too quick and ultimately way too easy
  • I'm not usually a starship fan but it would have been nice to see a Terran ship or two through the passageway
So yeah, it was okay. Definitely not something I'm going to revisit anytime soon. I think this would have definitely worked better as a miniseries. Maybe 4-6 episodes, given a little more to the cast to do to help flesh out the way too quick introductions and conflict that only kinda went anywhere and gave it a little room to breathe. Ten episodes would definitely be too much. But its not as terrible as some reviews are saying. I think the 5 I gave it upthread holds.
 
As usual, they can't keep their own timeline straight.

MU5adaN.jpeg


Only a few months (way less than six) passed between the end of STD S01E15 and S02E14, not a few years.


Is this supposed to be a reference?

NeqEE9v.jpeg
I think you got the timeline wrong.

Georgiou traveled back from 32nd century Discovery. She traveled to 2330 or so. She was originally in Section 31 in the 2250s and then apparently tried it again in the 2330s before giving up.

She was a child in the early 2200s.
 
Finished the rest of this:
  • I still say this is still very Star Trek. Very average, sometimes downright shitty Star Trek, but Star Trek nonetheless
  • Zeph and Mille's deaths were unsurprising
  • I will admit I was actually a little surprised that Fuzz was the mole
  • The action sequences were a little too frenetic for my tastes
  • There were a few funny moments
  • I actually like the crew once you got rid of Zeph, Mille and Fuzz
  • San being alive? I mean, how cliche can we get?
  • "Chaos is my friends with benefits." :D
  • Looks like they borrowed the flamethrowers from Disco for this production and got some mileage out of them
  • Phillipa's win against San was a way too quick and ultimately way too easy
  • I'm not usually a starship fan but it would have been nice to see a Terran ship or two through the passageway
So yeah, it was okay. Definitely not something I'm going to revisit anytime soon. I think this would have definitely worked better as a miniseries. Maybe 4-6 episodes, given a little more to the cast to do to help flesh out the way too quick introductions and conflict that only kinda went anywhere and gave it a little room to breathe. Ten episodes would definitely be too much. But its not as terrible as some reviews are saying. I think the 5 I gave it upthread holds.
I have to be honest I thought that Melle was the mole and they were going to do a Mission Impossible/Jim Phelps thing where she faked her vaporization via transporter and was the villain. It was unbelievable to me that they'd go through making Humberly Gonzalez bald and putting her into a revealing costume for a glorified cameo, but apprently that's what they did.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top