Spoilers (Somewhat minor spoilers) Guys, Lower Decks has NOT decanonized Discovery. Or SNW.

[Kamen Rider Blade]

You say that like its a bad thing. They're the guys creating the thing. Your "interpretations" are irrelevant. It's a fun mind exercise, but that's about it.

Continuity for any show matters, if they contradict themselves and have not come up with a reasonable explanation, than why watch it?

They obviously don't care for their own series if they don't offer a reasonable explanation.

Fans caring do matter, that's what keeps the fanbase engaged for decades on end.

You poo-poo-ing that shows that you only seem to care about what the staff at paramount says and not what the fan base cares about.

It's the fans who help keep the show & the franchise alive; w/o us, there is no reason for them to keep making new Star Trek shows.

 

[CrockAlley]

Continuity for any show matters, if they contradict themselves and have not come up with a reasonable explanation, than why watch it?

If a show from 2024 contradicts a show from 1966, how does it really effect either show? In the context of the current show, the specific details of the 1966 show doesn't really matter. And when watching the 1966 show, the 2024 show doesn't come into play.

I wish people could just enjoy each story on it's own merits without worrying if it "contradicts" a line of dialogue or the position of a lever from a story 50 years ago.

 

[Tuskin38]

MO, all Mike McMahon did is validate that DISCO & SNW are canon, but different timelines.

No he didn't. Nothing in this episode confirmed that.

Star Trek: Lower Decks’ Mike McMahan Addresses Wild Discovery Reference In Series Finale, And Now It Has Me Wondering

What do we make of this?

www.cinemablend.com

We also saw one crew turn into protoklingons, which we also know existed in the prime universe at one point because of TNG

All this confirms is that DSC style Klingons *also* exist in at least one other reality besides the prime and mirror ones.

Also LDS acknowledged the crossover with SNW in the Season 4 premier.

We saw Boimler's Number One poster in the same season, with her in the SNW uniform and with the DSC/SNW style Enterprise on the poster. Boimler and Mariner did not notice anything out of place on the ship during the crossover.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

We also saw one crew turn into protoklingons, which we also know existed in the prime universe at one point because of TNG

All this confirms is that DSC Klingons *also* exist in at least one other reality besides the prime and mirror ones.

He literally left it up to "Fan Interpretation".

What Mike McMahan Had To Say About The Multiversal Moment
Star Trek: Discovery sparked an overall polarized reception from the fandom, and with the upcoming Starfleet Academy series pulling in familiar characters from Discovery, I would be a little shocked if Lower Decks was fully allowed to throw such a definitive wrench into its Prime universe status. I asked showrunner Mike McMahan about the moment, and his response told me everything I needed to know:

Listen, I'm not gonna tell the fans how to respond to anything. If you watch [Fissure Quest] you can see the timelines across different realities are all messed up. Was I being a little stinker with that moment and knowing what I was doing? Yeah. I’m not dumb. It’s also not firmly [established]–another multiversal shift we saw is it turned into a Klingon sail barge. You can take that moment however you want, and talk to me about it in ten years [smiles].
McMahan's response may solidify this short scene's place in every fandom argument related to Star Trek: Discovery for decades. Essentially, he's confirming that fans can interpret that moment however they want and adding that it works both ways.

If you want to believe it was just due to realities messing up and that there was no deeper message about Discovery, there's evidence to support that. If you want to argue that Discovery (and I guess Strange New Worlds as well) don't take place in the Prime Timeline, well, maybe in a decade, we can talk more with him about that.

Is that so bad?

I'm not denying DISCO's existence or anything that has happened or created in the Kurtzman era.

Spoiler: My theory on the 4x TimeLines in existence that we focus on.

I'm just saying they get their own "Prime TimeLines" to exist in now.

Any new series can get their own "Prime TimeLine" Version #.# to exist on and we can all be happy that we all exist and get to move on our way w/o stepping on (past / current / future) continuities toes.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

If a show from 2024 contradicts a show from 1966, how does it really effect either show?

It matters when the 1966 series has been repeatedly shown to be the history of the 1987 show, the 1993 show, the 1995 show etc. and people are encouraged to watch it in 2024 to get the backstory.

 

[Tuskin38]

I'm just saying they get their own "Prime TimeLines" to exist in now.

Any new series can get their own "Prime TimeLine" Version #.# to exist on and we can all be happy that we all exist and get to move on our way w/o stepping on (past / current / future) continuities toes.

LDS acknowledged the crossover with SNW in the Season 4 premier.

We saw Boimler's Number One poster a couple times in the same season, with her in the SNW uniform and with the SNW style Enterprise on the poster. Boimler and Mariner did not notice anything out of place on the ship during the crossover.

All the shows share the same single universe. That is the official canon, anything else is fan fiction.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

LDS acknowledged the crossover with SNW in the Season 4 premier.

True

We saw Boimler's Number One poster a couple times in the same season, with her in the SNW uniform and with the DSC/SNW style Enterprise on the poster.

True, but that version of the USS Enterprise might still have existed as a Pre-TOS version of the USS Enterprise that we normally expect to see.

Same with the Uniforms, we all know StarFleet has a hard on for changing uniform designs all the damn time.

Boimler and Mariner did not notice anything out of place on the ship during the crossover.

They also interacted with plenty of Berman-era Characters as well over the span of the series.

It's all one single universe.

Maybe, we don't know exactly where that Time Portal took us along the Time-Line.

Remember, time-travel & Quantum Reality Branching isn't alway linear.
It's more like tree with it's branches that constantly grow and veer off.

We just know they triggered the Time Machine, it sent 2x people back.

They had shenanigans & adventures.

Now they're back in their Reality.

It doesn't deny what happened.

Just like it seems that there will always be a Kirk/Spock/McCoy trio at some point, no matter what Time-Line or Reality.

It seems that most likely every Quantum Reality is related in some way.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Continuity for any show matters, if they contradict themselves and have not come up with a reasonable explanation, than why watch it?

To be engaged and entertained by the story, the characters and the themes.

They obviously don't care for their own series if they don't offer a reasonable explanation.

Bullshit. What an absurd thing to say about writers. They are under no obligation to explain why Kirk had the middle initial of "R" in one episode, why Uhura wore gold in two episodes or why Klingons have bumps in TMP. Not doing so doesn't mean they don't care. It mean those things aren't important to story telling. When they do become important you wind up with fanwank.

Fans caring do matter, that's what keeps the fanbase engaged for decades on end.

I'd rather engage about themes, characterization and story than meaningless minutiae.

You poo-poo-ing that shows that you only seem to care about what the staff at paramount says and not what the fan base cares about.

I am the fanbase. I care about being entertained. I care about what I see on screen. I don't care about playing connect the dots, paint by numbers or Monday morning quarterbacking. The "staff" at Paramount are who makes the shows and gives things to talk about. I "care" that they're doing that. Beyond that, not much.

It's the fans who help keep the show & the franchise alive; w/o us, there is no reason for them to keep making new Star Trek shows.

Well, duh.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

To be engaged and entertained by the story, the characters and the themes.

And some of us care about the Lore, In-story Universe, the details.
It's not just one thing that defines all fans.

Bullshit. What an absurd thing to say about writers. They are under no obligation to explain why Kirk had the middle initial of "R" in one episode, why Uhura wore gold in two episodes or why Klingons have bumps in TMP. Not doing so doesn't mean they don't care. It mean those things aren't important to story telling. When they do become important you wind up with fanwank.

It means that they didn't care about previous gaffes in continuity. They just ignored it, or didn't bother trying to explain it.

I'd rather engage about themes, characterization and story than meaningless minutiae.

To you, it may be meaningless minutiae, to others, it's CRITICAL DETAILS that matter in the grander story.

I am the fanbase.

So are the rest of the Trek Fans, we are not one Homogenous Group with "Group Think".

I care about being entertained.

So do I, but being entertained also involves keeping continuity in check and making "Logical Sense".

I care about what I see on screen.

So do I, what happens matters.

You don't get to tell me that words don't matter and that you can deny the existence of the words of previous writers when it suites you w/o explanation.

I don't care about playing connect the dots, paint by numbers or Monday morning quarterbacking. The "staff" at Paramount are who makes the shows and gives things to talk about. I "care" that they're doing that. Beyond that, not much.

Then why do you participate in the fan forums?
If you only care about what Paramount Staff says, you'd live on the official Star Trek site only and not bother reading extra fan material, right?

Why else would Fan Sites, Fan Forums, Fan Wikis even exist and be referenced by the Creative Staff themselves if it didn't matter?

Well, duh.

And you wonder why the fans keep coming back, despite all the craziness that happens, Trek's internal continuity is "Pretty Damn Good" for all things considered given how much staff have participated, and how much content has existed and will continue to be created.

 

[fireproof78]

To be engaged and entertained by the story, the characters and the themes.

Bullshit. What an absurd thing to say about writers. They are under no obligation to explain why Kirk had the middle initial of "R" in one episode, why Uhura wore gold in two episodes or why Klingons have bumps in TMP. Not doing so doesn't mean they don't care. It mean those things aren't important to story telling. When they do become important you wind up with fanwank.

Indeed. I do grow tired of the insults thrown at writers because they are not writing as fans would.

I'd rather engage about themes, characterization and story than meaningless minutiae.

As would I. I get tired of being told I'm "not a part of the fan base" for caring about characters over minutia.

I am the fanbase. I care about being entertained. I care about what I see on screen. I don't care about playing connect the dots, paint by numbers or Monday morning quarterbacking. The "staff" at Paramount are who makes the shows and gives things to talk about. I "care" that they're doing that. Beyond that, not much.

I am the Fanbase.


And so can you!

So are the rest of the Trek Fans, we are not one Homogenous Group with "Group Think".

We are all fans; so stop throwing out accusations of walking the party line. That's not in good faith for these types of discussion. It creates the very disharmony that is constantly thrown at Kurtzman era Trek fans for daring to like a show that others consider disrespectful towards past Trek shows.

 

[The Wormhole]

Continuity for any show matters,

It certainly doesn't in Doctor Who, where one of the franchise's most renowned writers has said "continuity is only whatever I can remember." Or the show's current showrunner, who said "if it comes to a choice between serving the story or serving continuity, serving the story should be the only legitimate choice."

if they contradict themselves and have not come up with a reasonable explanation, than why watch it?

Because it's an entertaining show.

 

[Nerys Myk]

And some of us care about the Lore, In-story Universe, the details.
It's not just one thing that defines all fans.

I find it missing the forest for the tree

It means that they didn't care about previous gaffes in continuity. They just ignored it, or didn't bother trying to explain it.

Because there's rarely a good story there. Navel gazing.

To you, it may be meaningless minutiae, to others, it's CRITICAL DETAILS that matter in the grander story.

I simply don't find such things as "critical". The Klingon make up just isn't important from a storytelling standpoint.

So are the rest of the Trek Fans, we are not one Homogenous Group with "Group Think".

Didn't say they were.

So do I, but being entertained also involves keeping continuity in check and making "Logical Sense".

I obviously disagree. I's rather have a good story than box checking.

So do I, what happens matters.

You don't get to tell me that words don't matter and that you can deny the existence of the words of previous writers when it suites you w/o explanation.

Where am I denying the words of previous staff writers? You're the one making things up to fill a gap and scratch your particular itch,

Then why do you participate in the fan forums?
If you only care about what Paramount Staff says, you'd live on the official Star Trek site only and not bother reading extra fan material, right?

Why else would Fan Sites, Fan Forums, Fan Wikis even exist and be referenced by the Creative Staff themselves if it didn't matter?

To discuss the show with fans, but not to get mired in half baked explanations about canon and continuity because show X made alien Y different than what was seen in show Z. Or an hour long episode explaining why a uniform was different for two seconds.

And you wonder why the fans keep coming back, despite all the craziness that happens, Trek's internal continuity is "Pretty Damn Good" for all things considered given how much staff have participated, and how much content has existed and will continue to be created.

I've wondered no such thing

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

We are all fans; so stop throwing out accusations of walking the party line. That's not in good faith for these types of discussion.

When you're the ones who tell us that "Continuity Doesn't Matter", and the only thing that matters is what Paramount tells us.

That we need to adjust to your view point isn't what I particularly call "Good Faith" discussion either.

It's denying our viewpoints as not important because the only thing that is important is what you have stated instead of trying to understand us.

I offer a very good compromise solution and a way to make sure all parties get to co-exist in harmony.

You poo-poo my ideas and call me the one not working in "Good Faith".

How's that fair to me or others who value the same things I do?

It creates the very disharmony that is constantly thrown at Kurtzman era Trek fans for daring to like a show that others consider disrespectful towards past Trek shows.

Funny, the only disharmony I see is being attacked for my views on wanting to see certain things in the story addressed.

The moment it seems to be addressed, I'm told that I'm wrong and that one persons view is the only one acceptable?

How's that fair to me and others like me?

Or is only your PoV acceptable in the grand Star Trek fandom, and everybody has to fall in line?

It certainly doesn't in Doctor Who, where one of the franchise's most renowned writers has said "continuity is only whatever I can remember." Or the show's current showrunner, who said "if it comes to a choice between serving the story or serving continuity, serving the story should be the only legitimate choice."

We're not the "Doctor Who" Universe, and that kind of thinking has caused unnecessary chaos & strife within that community as well.

 

[The Wormhole]

We're not the "Doctor Who" Universe, and that kind of thinking has caused unnecessary chaos & strife within that community as well.

It literally hasn't.

 

[fireproof78]

When you're the ones who tell us that "Continuity Doesn't Matter", and the only thing that matters is what Paramount tells us.

That we need to adjust to your view point isn't what I particularly call "Good Faith" discussion either.

It's denying our viewpoints as not important because the only thing that is important is what you have stated instead of trying to understand us.

I offer a very good compromise solution and a way to make sure all parties get to co-exist in harmony.

You poo-poo my ideas and call me the one not working in "Good Faith".

How's that fair to me or others who value the same things I do?

I do not "poo-poo" your ideas. I merely disagree with them. That's the whole thing is that people don't take all the minutia as important as others do. The term, I think Star Trek invented it, is diversity.

I'm not denying the viewpoints are not important; I am denying that they are not important to me in terms of being the most valuable thing in Trek or the only thing worth discussion. But telling me that I'm following the party line by saying "continuity is not as important as characters" doesn't build any confidence that there can be a shared point of view.

Funny, the only disharmony I see is being attacked for my views on wanting to see certain things in the story addressed.

With due respect telling someone they are following the party line is an insult to me. It's saying, "Oh, you cannot think for yourself and need someone else to do so." So, that's the source of disharmony I see.

The moment it seems to be addressed, I'm told that I'm wrong and that one persons view is the only one acceptable?

It's fiction; there is no right or wrong. Just different points of view. My point of view is not more right than yours on Star Trek; I wouldn't call you wrong. I will say I strongly disagree or that I don't even get why this matters so much.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I find it missing the forest for the tree

That's your PoV, you're entitled to it.
I beg to disagree.

Because there's rarely a good story there. Navel gazing.

Yet Lower Decks makes plenty of good stories while using previous continuity and expanding on it.

I simply don't find such things as "critical". The Klingon make up just isn't important from a storytelling standpoint.

To you, it isn't "Critical". To others in the fan base, it is.
That's why DS9 reference it and even talked about it when they time traveled back to the "Troubles with Tribbles" episode.
That's why ENT had an entire arc that eventually explained it.

Then it was just "Thrown out" when DISCO started w/o explanation.
And you wonder why a giant chunk of Trek fandom was PISSED.

Didn't say they were.

Yet you're trying to assert that your PoV is the one that should matter over ours.

I obviously disagree. I's rather have a good story than box checking.

To you it's "Box Checking", to me, it's having a better grasp of your franchises Universe / Story.
Most people can walk & chew bubble gum at the same time.
Some staff over there obviously forgot how to do both at the same time.

Where am I denying the words of previous staff writers? You're the one making things up to fill a gap and scratch your particular itch,

By ignoring continuity and treating it as "Unimportant Details", finding it acceptable to have major contradictions in Trek Lore / History that was firmly established with previous shows like TOS.
You're telling me that Kirk & his crew in TOS has stated that they never encountered Cloaked Ships in "Balance of Terror".
Now that we find out that in ENT, Jonathan Archer has encountered "Cloaked Vessels" & encountered "The Romulans" who already have "Cloaked Vessels".
Now Klingons have "Cloaked Vessels" WAY before they should've had them.

Details like that matter.

Details like Spock having a Adopted Human Sister who was a pivotal figure in the previous Klingon War.
But never mentions it to Kirk in the future of TOS, or references a previous Federation-Klingon War?

To discuss the show with fans, but not to get mired in half baked explanations about canon and continuity because show X made alien Y different than what was seen in show Z. Or an hour long episode explaining why a uniform was different for two seconds.

There are different fans who care about all that details. You're encountering them over time.
I won't be the first, I won't be the last one who cares about that detail.

I've wondered no such thing

Good for you, it matters to others.

 

[fireproof78]

Some staff over there obviously forgot how to do both at the same time.

This is why I disagree.

There is zero need to insult people over a different point of view in a fictional franchise!

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

This is why I disagree.

There is zero need to insult people over a different point of view in a fictional franchise!

You consider that an insult?

Seriously?

 

[fireproof78]

You consider that an insult?

Seriously?

Yes.


Seriously. No sarcasm intended. Don't know why the insulting writers is always given a free pass and centers around ability. It is quite disturbing to me though.

 

[Tuskin38]

You consider that an insult?

Seriously?

It's very insulting to the writers.

That's why DS9 reference it and even talked about it when they time traveled back to the "Troubles with Tribbles" episode.

It was a joke.