A plus to the Deddy design over the NX during the war - we can headcanon the Deddy as a more versitile modular ship than the NX. Its an old design, but its easier and fast to modfy the basic design to suit difference purposes.
The Earth - Romulan War (non-canon)
- Thread starter Rahul
- Start date
Fighters and the like might have some in-system effectiveness, particularly for orbital and atmospheric support of ground operations, but we've seen them struggle against even relatively small starships (the Jem'hadar attack vessel being the best example of limited success) so I'd keep them in the defensive/response role in open space against starships of very limited duration (<24hrs).
Yeah basically. The "Big giant tube" hull can be used for basically anything.
In my expanded Romulan War lore, the versatile design is a key to the formation of the Federation and Earth's dominance of it... immediately after the war, Starfleet switches gears on a dime, dumps all the missiles out, and the massive industrial capacity of United Earth is now filling those Deds with food, medical supplies, etc. to being a massive recovery effort for Vulcan, Andor and Tellar.
I'm sure i've gone into it, but I have the whole idea that Earth goes from having a laughable fleet of like, two vessels capable of anything... to within a few years having a massive fleet that can dominate anything else, largely due to losses the other powers sustained (and the Klingons entering a period of civil war that extends up to Discovery).
I like the Ded being at least based off an old design. For my lore, it was one of the last things drawn up by the United States Space Force before the organization was folded into Starfleet. The ship was designed a warship, and it was an incredibly rugged design that could handle a big honkin warp core with minimal issues to its power grid. The drive itself was a scrapped competitor to the Warp 5 Project funded directly by the US In my lore, it's the same style warp drive from the Franklin. It had initial success, but ended up capping out in the mid Warp 4.somethings. It had the benefit of being fast enough to work for the war, and being comparatively cheap and easy to run compared to the NX Drive. The NX was a revolutionary design, the US drive was basically just a souped-up Pheonix-style drive. It didn't even actually need dilithium to hit low warp, so in a disaster situation they could still limp home at Warp 1 by just keeping the fusion reactors going.
The US Space Force scrapped the plans to build a fleet based off that design when they realized the drive would never hit Warp 5, and instead pivoted to trying to build Vulcan-style warp drives, which was where Enterprise XCV-330 came from. The relevance to the Romulan War... in my lore, the ship is still in service into the Romulan War, having been absorbed into Starfleet in 2154. It was lost towards the beginning of the war.
Oh yeah. I would be surprised if they made it anywhere close to 24 hours. I would think it would be more a hit and run strike, not a prolonged, pitched battle.
If you consider the Essex class to be similar to the NX class, then the Kaiser class escort carriers would be comparable to the Daedalus.
The NX class is a complex top of the line ship, much like the Essex class, meaning relatively few will be built.
Twenty-four Essex class carriers were built during the war. Five were already under construction when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, six on order and two more were ordered in the days after the attack
In the case of the Kaiser class escort carrier, fifty of the carriers were ordered with the lead ship of the class, Casablanca, beings delivered on July 8, 1943, and the fiftieth Munda, being delivered exactly one year later, July 8, 1944, thanks in part to round the clock construction and the relatively plain design.
In the month following Peal Harbor, the US Navy placed orders for 298 surface warships, almost all of them destroyers and destroyer escorts.
In the month following the Battle of Midway, June 4, 1942, the United States had a grand total of 131 aircraft carriers of all types in various stages of construction, conversion, or on order.
1 Large Carrier (Midway)
22 Fleet Carriers (Essex)
9 Light Carriers (Independence)
99 Escort Carriers, 34 of which would be transferred to Great Britian upon completion.
Per the First Contact novelization - he was actually born in 2013.
I think that overall makes more sense than in 2030, etc.
Any post 2063 age discrepancies can be put down to time dilation and/or cryonic usage.
As for the Daedalus - it looks older than the NX in many ways. I can at very least see it being contemporary (like the novels suggested)
I think it almost needs to be at least contemporary... they're retired by 2193.
That or they're just kind of... not great ships? Or maybe both?
That was a big part of the reason I headcanon them into being almost disposable. They were never meant to have a long service life. They were meant to built as quickly and cheaply as possible to throw into war. What happened with them after the war was not a concern.
A perfect analogy, even to the point of the post-war uses of the Liberty Ships as being converted into a cargo fleet. That's like... exactly what I have them doing, at least in large part. I have them going a few directions post-war, but by and large they become cargo vessels. There's a few that become exploration vessels but they don't last very long. There's a handful that get assigned to various other duties, in my non-canon lore a few become the transport vessels for an early Starfleet Marines.
It always bugged me that upstart Earth managed to defeat a two thousand year old interstellar civilization. I’ve got multiple head canons for what might have happened, including the Diane Duane and Erik Jendresen versions and an indeterminate one.
I’d started to think some calamity might have befallen the Romulans in the intervening years since their arrival on the planet(s). Maybe their warring ways nearly destroyed them on Romulus as it did on Vulcan, and they were stuck in a dark age for a while.
Maybe along with that something similar to what’s going on in the real world now happened with Earth, and the greater powers funneled technology and aid to Earth to defend itself against Romulan aggression.
I’d started to think some calamity might have befallen the Romulans in the intervening years since their arrival on the planet(s). Maybe their warring ways nearly destroyed them on Romulus as it did on Vulcan, and they were stuck in a dark age for a while.
Maybe along with that something similar to what’s going on in the real world now happened with Earth, and the greater powers funneled technology and aid to Earth to defend itself against Romulan aggression.
Or maybe the Romulans underestimated Humans because they were an upstart starfaring society and thought they were pushovers. They didn't know that when forced to fight, Humans could be extremely tenacious, cunning, and outright vicious warriors.
Maybe at the start of the Romulan Wars, Humans were outmatched and suffered many losses, but as the conflict went on, mobilized Earth's entire manufacturing industry to crank out a massive wartime fleet that quickly equaled (and maybe even eventually surpassed) the Romulan forces. Although Humans and Romulans may have been the primary participants in the war, Earth might have had some aid from the Vulcans, Andorians, and maybe even the Tellarites as far as support (resources, facilities, & intel).
Maybe to the Romulans, the war with Earth was a humiliating defeat. A lesson of what happens when you underestimate an adversary.
Maybe at the start of the Romulan Wars, Humans were outmatched and suffered many losses, but as the conflict went on, mobilized Earth's entire manufacturing industry to crank out a massive wartime fleet that quickly equaled (and maybe even eventually surpassed) the Romulan forces. Although Humans and Romulans may have been the primary participants in the war, Earth might have had some aid from the Vulcans, Andorians, and maybe even the Tellarites as far as support (resources, facilities, & intel).
Maybe to the Romulans, the war with Earth was a humiliating defeat. A lesson of what happens when you underestimate an adversary.
It’s really a good one and thanks to all involved. :-)
Fuck me… Do Americans really say this?
*shakes head*
It's a conflict that practically begs to be explored. There's so much potential for interesting things to come from it. Heroes, villians, starships, etc.
In Enterprise, Soval implies that one aspect about humanity that "scares" Vulcans is how fast we seem to adapt to adversity and progress.
SOVAL: We had our wars, Admiral, just as humans did. Our planet was devastated, our civilisation nearly destroyed. Logic saved us. But it took almost fifteen hundred years for us to rebuild our world and travel to the stars. You humans did the same in less than a century. There are those on the High Command who wonder what humans would achieve in the century to come, and they don't like the answer.
This is also part of the backstory of the other races too. For example, the Klingons presumably took warp drive from the Hur'q when they drove them off Qo'Nos in the 14th century. The Bajoran civilization is said to be 500,000-years-old and had interstellar flight in the 16th century. The Romulans presumably had warp drive when they were driven off Vulcan after the war between their partisans and Surak's in the 4th century.
Another aspect of this is that humanity seems to be odd in that we actively try to use warp drive to explore beyond the boundaries of known space and learn what else exists beyond what's been mapped, where the other races seem to see interstellar travel as more of a tool in service of defending territory and finding resources. If you go back and watch season 1 of Enterprise, the Vulcans seem, in part, to not understand the purpose of Starfleet exploring space.
This goes towards the idea that's also expounded on in Babylon 5; that humanity is odd in that we build communities instead of just trying to claim things for "humans-only."
Fun fact: That quality is actually based in science and thought to be a key element of homo-sapien evolution. Unlike the "killer-ape hypothesis," where our ability to learn how to kill things with tools is a motivating factor that you see in something like 2001, humans are actually not as aggressive as other ape species. Modern anthropology hypothesizes that civilization owes itself to the ability of humans to NOT be as aggressive as other animal species are with each other. That it is our ability to find ways to cooperate and build communities for the betterment of everyone that gave us control of Earth.
That would be the years America was directly involved. From Pearl Harbor through the Japanese Empire surrendering aboard an American battleship in Tokyo Bay.
As an American, my take is that prior to the US joining the war, there was two regional wars (the European War and the Japanese/Chinese War), but when the USA and Britain territories were attacked by Japan in December 1941, both nations declared war on Japan which joined the regional wars into one big World War, so yeah, World War II technically should be from 1941-1945. Just because Britain declared war on Germany in 1939 doesn't mean it should be the start of World War II, rather it was the precursor to World War II. (Just in my opinion.
)
“We called it the Second Civil War, then the Eugenics War, and finally just World War III…”
The two regional wars were conducted by allies—the Nazis and the Japanese.
What was it called at the time?
I hope we’ll one day call the war in Ukraine the war in Ukraine (ditto the war in Gaza) so we’ll get to have an Earth-Romulan War.
The two regional wars were conducted by allies—the Nazis and the Japanese.
What was it called at the time?
I hope we’ll one day call the war in Ukraine the war in Ukraine (ditto the war in Gaza) so we’ll get to have an Earth-Romulan War.
Also, yeah I dunno how I feel about the Humans rising out WWIII in less than a century. For one it makes us the Mary Sues of our own franchise—well aren’t we special—and it other-ifies all the aliens in a way they aren’t otherwise dramatized.
But it’s also so completely unrealistic as to sound like the worst kind of propaganda. Oh yeah? You go from all the major cities and a third of the planet’s biosphere being destroyed by nuclear bombardment to interstellar exploration in under a century because of something intrinsic in us humans that isn’t in all the aliens out there? Give me a fucking break. We’d be lucky we weren’t Mad Max for a dwindling century before we finally went extinct from starvation, disease, and further conflict.
The only way we get out of it to look like ENT in a century is with Vulcan help. It’s by seeing the community of interstellar nations out there and trading with them, wanting a piece of their action. Even then I think it you ask a lot of people after the war about the newfound aliens they’d be like, swell, but we need to finish off those Eastern Coalition bastards once and for all for what they’ve done. And vice versa. Because there’s nothing left. That’s us as much as the Vulcans or anyone else.
It would make for a hell of a story the great heroes of the era that called upon us to be the better angels of our nature, who went into the stars to negotiate for assistance in helping us fly, and who outmaneuvered the rest.
But it’s also so completely unrealistic as to sound like the worst kind of propaganda. Oh yeah? You go from all the major cities and a third of the planet’s biosphere being destroyed by nuclear bombardment to interstellar exploration in under a century because of something intrinsic in us humans that isn’t in all the aliens out there? Give me a fucking break. We’d be lucky we weren’t Mad Max for a dwindling century before we finally went extinct from starvation, disease, and further conflict.
The only way we get out of it to look like ENT in a century is with Vulcan help. It’s by seeing the community of interstellar nations out there and trading with them, wanting a piece of their action. Even then I think it you ask a lot of people after the war about the newfound aliens they’d be like, swell, but we need to finish off those Eastern Coalition bastards once and for all for what they’ve done. And vice versa. Because there’s nothing left. That’s us as much as the Vulcans or anyone else.
It would make for a hell of a story the great heroes of the era that called upon us to be the better angels of our nature, who went into the stars to negotiate for assistance in helping us fly, and who outmaneuvered the rest.
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Just because Britain declared war on Germany in 1939 doesn't mean it should be the start of World War II, rather it was the precursor to World War II. (Just in my opinion.
To me it’s like a party starts at 7pm… but I say it started at 8:30pm because that’s when I arrived…
I think I will just really, really have to bite my tongue and agree to disagree on this one…
