What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[Macintosh]

Speaking of Dixon Hill...

Apparently the genesis of Dixon Hill was Patrick Stewart and Maurice Hurley discovering they shared a love of Raymond Chandler novels, but based on what we now know about his character it made zero sense that Picard was into Dixon Hill. It would have made far more sense for Dixon Hill to be Riker's thing. Picard I could imagine good-naturedly sparring with Data on whether C. Auguste Dupin was better than Sherlock Holmes, or just about being a guilty Agatha Christie fan.

 

[Tallguy]

Speaking of Dixon Hill...

Apparently the genesis of Dixon Hill was Patrick Stewart and Maurice Hurley discovering they shared a love of Raymond Chandler novels, but based on what we now know about his character it made zero sense that Picard was into Dixon Hill. It would have made far more sense for Dixon Hill to be Riker's thing. Picard I could imagine good-naturedly sparring with Data on whether C. Auguste Dupin was better than Sherlock Holmes, or just about being a guilty Agatha Christie fan.

It's interesting and surprising because it's NOT like the other things that we would expect him to be interested in. Even in First Contact it kind of feels like he knows he's being "bad".

 

[Nerys Myk]

In 1966, I imagine much of the audience probably figured it was a made up future name.

There's a rule of three about made up names: "Shakespeare...King...Gor'nax"

 

[B.J.]

It's interesting and surprising because it's NOT like the other things that we would expect him to be interested in. Even in First Contact it kind of feels like he knows he's being "bad".

Agreed. We all have a wide range of interests, some of which don't exactly "fit" with everything else.

 

[Alexander Corrino]

Let's not forget that Jean-Luc wasn't always the often somewhat stuffy guy we see on TNG. Dixon Hill is an interest of his that has been with him for a long time. I mean surely a lot of people still have interests that don't align 100% with their current personality but come from earlier times in their lives? And to me his Dixon Hill cosplaying always seemed like something where he can let go of his starship captain personality that takes up so much space in his life (pun intented).

 

[Danja]

Apparently the genesis of Dixon Hill was Patrick Stewart and Maurice Hurley discovering they shared a love of Raymond Chandler novels, but based on what we now know about his character it made zero sense that Picard was into Dixon Hill.

Given the events of Picard S2, Dixon Hill and other mystery novels may have appealed to him because of their cohesive structure and internal logic (in stark contrast to his chaotic upbringing).

 

[Tallguy]

Given the events of Picard S2, Dixon Hill and other mystery novels may have appealed to him because of their cohesive structure and internal logic (in stark contrast to his chaotic upbringing).

Roddenberry: We live in a perfected humanity where we have moved past such things as workplace squabbles. Our conflict comes from the lesser evolved peoples we meet, never from our crew.

PIC: Some Starfleet officers suffer from drug addiction so badly that they lose their families and live alone in a trailer in the deserts of California. And Picard's mother's mental issues were so severe and untreated that she took her own life.

Maaaaybe I don't look to PIC to determine why Picard plays detective on the holodeck.

 

[Danja]

Roddenberry: We live in a perfected humanity where we have moved past such things as workplace squabbles. Our conflict comes from the lesser evolved peoples we meet, never from our crew.

One more reason why I've never liked TNG.

I just can't relate to these people.

 

[Tallguy]

One more reason why I've never liked TNG.

I just can't relate to these people.

Because the show involves human beings and is written and watched by human beings Roddenberry's rules lacked a certain stickiness. They're more like guidelines. (Although obviously they found their full flower in TNG season 1.)

PIC is too far in the other direction.

You know what's a good middle ground on the "perfectibility of humans"? There was this sci-fi show that ran on NBC from 1966 to 1969...

 

[at Quark's]

There's a rule of three about made up names: "Shakespeare...King...Gor'nax"

Reminds me of Tom Paris in Threshold, when he is compared to Wright, Amstrong, and Cochrane, should his test flight the next day succeed.

 

[Tallguy]

They'll remember you in one breath with Newton, Einstein, Surak... (Surak? The philosopher?)

Famous, Famous, Fictional - TV Tropes

When several examples of something are being listed in Speculative Fiction, a couple of them will be from our time (or timeline if it's Alternate History), and the final one will be one from the future (or post-divergence Alternate History). The …

tvtropes.org

 

[Shawnster]

You would have to have writers that were aware of those folks, then you risk losing the largest audience, Americans. Trek may be more global, but its bread-and-butter is still the American viewer. That is still where it makes the most money.

Maybe in 1966, but today's America audience is more global. They would not stop watching Trek because a character quoted Sun Tzu.

At lease Picard knew about Gilgamesh.

 

[fireproof78]

You know what's a good middle ground on the "perfectibility of humans"? There was this sci-fi show that ran on NBC from 1966 to 1969...

Never heard of it. Probably struggled to stay on the air.

 

[FredH]

Honestly? While I wouldn’t want the same family history for myself as Picard had, I wish I could’ve grown up in a house with so many underground passages and rooms that it included “a thousand ways to die”. So much space for individual personal hideouts…

 

[Rahul]

I kind of absolutely love how Patrick Stewart always wants to play greasy, pulpy action heroes, bedding women, punching aliens and driving fast cars, but always lands the roles of stuck up, wise and formal leaders holding speeches in meeting rooms and wheelchairs.

However it absolutely hurt the TNG movies, where he gained more creative control and tried to become John McLane (kind of okay...), and then completely derailed PIC, which is basically Stewart wish-fulfillment (except for Biden-levels of spritliness) and has very little to do with the character created originally.

 

[Alexander Corrino]

Naaah... he's played a lot of bad guys and others in his career. He has tried very carefully to AVOID falling into stereotype casting, which is why the first role he accepted after TNG was the gay interior decorator in the movie "Jeffrey". But I will admit that people who aren't familiar with his career might think he always plays the stuck up leader giving speeches.

That being said, I do agree that him working against the character of Jean-Luc Picard due to him thinking the man needed to "let loose" has not always helped things. Sometimes it did, sometimes it didn't. With PIC... it didn't. I do realize where he was coming from and he had his heart in the right place and all but... nah. I love Sir Patrick, but PIC really wasn't it.

 

[Lord Garth]

I didn't weigh in on this topic for 31 years, but now I finally am. DS9 vs. B5. DS9 is not a rip-off of B5. The similarities are superficial. The characters' counterparts are very different, the set design is very different, the backstories are different, and the character dynamics are very different. Visually, some things I like better about B5 and some things I like better about DS9.

 

[maneth]

I didn't weigh in on this topic for 31 years, but now I finally am. DS9 vs. B5. DS9 is not a rip-off of B5. The similarities are superficial. The characters' counterparts are very different, the set design is very different, the backstories are different, and the character dynamics are very different. Visually, some things I like better about B5 and some things I like better about DS9.

Agree. Any show they set on a space station from now on will have something in common with both of those, unless they intentionally decide to write something completely different.

I do find the coincidences in names, specifically Leeta/Lyta and Dukat/Dukhat interesting, though.

Likewise the non-corporeal Prophets/Pah'wraiths and Vorlons/Shadows, even if the Shadows are intradimensional rather than non-corporeal, but to corporeal beings that makes little difference. (The fact that Species 8472 look like grayish Shadows is no coincidence, the CGI was done by the same company and they used the wireframe set of the Shadows as a base for Species 8472.)

Two writers wrote for both shows, the legendary Dorothy Fontana and Marc Scott Zicree, but the plotlines have nothing in common.

 

[Lord Garth]

I'm going to watch 'The Gathering" a second time tonight, before giving my review of it.

First Time = Taking it all in.
Second Time = Going more analytical.

I was able to skip the first step for DS9.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I'm going to watch 'The Gathering" a second time tonight, before giving my review of it.

It's a shame your second viewing can't be of the original version with the Stewart Copeland soundtrack, but I'm sure that'd be awkward to find.