Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 5x10 - "Life, Itself"

[Deks]

Thank goodness! I was starting to think I was the only one who liked how they tied in Calypso at the end

I liked it too, but it opens up a whole new slew of questions, and somewhat also forces Zora into exile for the next 1000 years.
Mind you, Calypso pretty much did the same thing, but I was given the impression that Zora had to wait as a result of unknown circumstances that forced the crew to abandon her in the first place (but here, it turns out Zora was given specific orders to wait for Craft).

The finale DOES provide us a more concise reasoning for why she was there... so the 'forced exile' is probably a biproduct of not knowing WHEN Craft would intersect her.

Though there IS a bit of logic behind it. There is no guarantee that Zora would survive for the next 1000 if she was on active duty... meaning, the ship could be destroyed, etc... so its possible she was said to wait in the nebula because its a relatively secure location (which will protect her for a very long time), and allow her to evolve even more in the process until she meets Craft.

 

[Deks]

Anyone find it kind of funny how the replacement bridge crew that had been there all season wasn't important enough to bring back at the end?

Looks that way. But then again, the secondary characters on the bridge and whole of Disco seldom received proper character development, so I was actually surprised they even brough Detmer and Owoshekun back for that dream hug sendoff scene.

Lack of use/development of secondary characters on Disco was its main weak point. Even VOY managed to give the whole crew character development in the first 5 years, so for Disco writers to miss that with their characters is a shame.
I actually had a pang of nostalgia when they showed us Aryam again in the temporal bug episode. For a moment, I thought they will try to bring her back using the progenitor tech.

 

[ananta]

Was hoping Kovich was Flint.. owell still squeeed over daniels

Yes! That would have worked so much better for me!

I didn’t mind the Daniels revelation but it links back to one of Trek’s most unpopular, reviled and muddled storylines, and one that was probably best forgotten.

 

[Eddie Roth]

I don't care what the theatre full of Discovery fans audience thought in the same way I don't care what the people who hate Discovery think.

I think all of this crap of constantly mining old shows and filling rooms with visors and baseballs has gone way beyond redundant at this stage. Things like the Starfleet museum should be a fun website extra not a plot point for an entire season. Same as Kovich being Daniels adds nothing other than clickbait or having the mcguffin being progenitor tech was pointless. Carl being the GoF was pointless too and even more obvious than John Harrison was.
Having it there for no purpose other than "hey it's that thing you remember" is the whole definition of a memberberry.

I'll join this discussion by agreeing 100% with what you said here, as this was indeed my main complaint about this finale (which is high praise indeed as I have been SUPER-critical of DSC for many years now - for the same reasons that many others have as well). It was a solid enough finale that might've ended in exactly the right place and mood if it had cut to black at the moment originally written: Burnham and Book on the beach. Everything after that was writers not being able to let go and/or overestimating the audience's level of involvement with 1. characters big and small, 2. minutiae like a short film from many years ago that most people may not even have seen.

DSC, this season, has stayed away from the saccharine sentimentality that marred season 3 and 4 more often than I had feared - although there were still too many such moments - and this episode did too up to and including the wedding. And if it gets sugary for the final "I've always loved you" scene between B&B, okay then. After three seasons, that's earned. But it just seems like the DSC writers simply cannot rein in their worst impulses and keep going back for the cheap score: Fan service (which Picard did too, but better, because we actually care about TNG and its characters, while DSC's callbacks are often to some rather obscure and minuscule thing from before) and tearjerking.

Without wanting to make too big a deal out of this, but it does feel like this generation of writers has been conditioned by its own TV upbringing to believe that a great episode of a show can only be one of the following kinds:

• the one where something shocking happens (the Game of Thrones effect)
• the one that makes you cry
• the one that has a surprising crossover with a) another show or b) a beloved earlier episode or character (in essence the soap opera effect)

All valid effects that TV can and should produce, but ideally such moments would be earned and work organically within the whole. DSC, in this episode as well as overall, often played like either a musical (or porn for that matter) in the sense that the actual story seems like an excuse to have some connective tissue between one "number" and the next.

 

[Photoman15]

https://trekmovie.com/2024/05/30/re...covery-pulls-it-all-together-for-life-itself/

The Trekmovie review states that Leto's name wasn't mentioned in dialogue - but am pretty sure it was when I rewatched the epilogue.

His name was said at (approximately) 1h:17min

 

[The_Baroness]

I did enjoy Rayner flinging the breen to the barrier.

But...he said it'll take them decades to get back suggesting they still have standard warp.

But...book mentions a run in with talaxian pirates and we've seen at least one other delta quadrant species in the alpha quadrant this season which to me suggests that faster warp is ubiquitous.

So surely the breen can get back sooner than Rayner suggested? They can't be that far behind even the talaxians in terms of warp can they?

 

[I am not Spock]

I thought it was decent. 8/10. The last half hour, Calypso tie in, and Kovich reveal was my favourite part, actually. I didn't think we'd get any resolution for Kovich or Calypso. My only disappointment was not seeing ISS enterprise, and Detmer, Owo, and Reno only having a silent cameo

 

[eschaton]

And erase everyone's memories as well? And recall our DVDs and Blu-Rays?

Eh, Lucas has done it many times now. I don't think it's the worst thing in the world - particularly since it wouldn't have changed anything relating to the story.

Pretty much likely the reason for why the 32nd century is not as advanced as it should be.
Disco writers apparently don't want to (or cannot) write stories in highly advanced settings - and it seems it was decided Trek species shouldn't fundamentally change or advance too much technologically (because if they were to base it remotely on real world exponential developments and returns, the UFP would have been ridiculously hyperadvanced by the 32nd century - probably on the level of 10-C species if not more so).

After Season 2 ended, my preferred scenario for a potential season 3 was "Star Trek: Left Behind."

Discovery reaches the 32nd century and finds...no one to speak of. Mysterious, vacant space stations the size of planets. A virgin Earth with no signs of human life, back in the ice age, with mammoth and Smilodon. Vulcan is much the same, as is Andoria. As is nearly everywhere.

They eventually begin piecing things together, finding remnants. People left stuck in cryostasis. Sentient holograms left off for centuries. Isolated colonies of luddites. They discover that the Federation was thriving up until around a century past, and then seems to have vanished overnight.

It turns out, by the end of the season, nothing bad befell the Federation. It's just that (as has been established repeatedly in the past) the logical endpoint of every Trek culture which doesn't die out is ascending into energy beings - which is why we don't ever stumble over races millions of years old. The Federation as a whole "moved on" and it's up to Discovery to re-organize the remnants into a new Federation.

 

[valkyrie013]

Feel bad for Zora, she's a sentient being just being.. left alone for centuries. Wish she had more screen time, but she has what? 2 sentience the entire season?

 

[eschaton]

Feel bad for Zora, she's a sentient being just being.. left alone for centuries. Wish she had more screen time, but she has what? 2 sentience the entire season?

DIS has had issues over the last three seasons juggling characters. They keep introducing new characters to the setting, but in the process the older ones progressively lose focus.

As I noted in another thread, probably 80% of this season could have been accomplished by Michael, Book, and Rayner on a shuttle together, tracking down Moll, and it would work just as well. No one else was really needed. They were given filler scenes, for the most part, trying to do things like puzzle out the clues, and barely above the (new) bridge extras in terms of story relevance.

 

[thribs]

I did enjoy Rayner flinging the breen to the barrier.

But...he said it'll take them decades to get back suggesting they still have standard warp.

But...book mentions a run in with talaxian pirates and we've seen at least one other delta quadrant species in the alpha quadrant this season which to me suggests that faster warp is ubiquitous.

So surely the breen can get back sooner than Rayner suggested? They can't be that far behind even the talaxians in terms of warp can they?

The lack of information on how fast ships are this century is really annoying. Plus sending them to the barrier could simply mean 10,000 lightyears since it surrounds the whole galaxy

 

[Paul755]

It’s a little tricky to judge for me because it was a season finale that turned into a series finale. So it’s a bit like Turnabout Intruder just with a better story.

the episode itself was fine but a little flat and certainly overpacked. Which except for S4 is a Disco trademark. I was very surprised the was no L’ak resurrection. I do hate the “this power is too much for one person so we must destroy it” cliche but you could see it coming from a mile away. I wonder if they had known it was going to be a series finale if they would have had Michael accept the power and go away ala Sisko going off with the Prophets.

The Kovich/Daniels reveal was fine. I didn’t love it but I don’t hate it either. I saw someone suggest that they could have made him that copy of The Doctor from “Living Witness”. I think I would have liked that better.

I loved what I presume was the original ending of Michael and Book reconciling and then beaming away. That was perfect. The final-final ending was good until it became a “let’s all hug on the bridge” thing.

Tying that ending to Calypso was dumb-dumb-dumb. They should have just let Calypso exist as its own thing. Especially considering it came from before the time shift at the end of S2. Tying it in just felt so clunky.

As for the season as a whole. It started out great but kinda flattened out. I was expecting a much more ripping action-adventure based off the season premiere. But it got more slow and methodical, even with the intro of the Breen. I think it would have helped to have multiple parties involved in the chase similar to the original episode. Gimme Disco vs the Breen vs Mol and L’ak vs the Orion Syndicate vs the Klingons (or someone). It’s a shame too that so many regulars were missing. Especially with the final season factor.

Rayner was easily the best character. Mal was the worst.

Finale 8/10
Season 8/10

 

[Tuskin38]

Michael chucked the portal not into the blackhole, but into the horizon.

Later generations once they have the tech not to get shrredded by the black hole and try and retrieve it, by then maybe they'll be mature enough to use it.

Speaking of Craft, (I may have mentioned this before) but it seems early versions of Season 3 would have had him. The artist that designed Book's ship put up concept art of all the revisions of it, and the earliest ones are labelled 'Craft's ship'.

They're dated after the Short Trek aired, so they're not concept art for that.

 

[Quantum21]

I liked it too, but it opens up a whole new slew of questions, and somewhat also forces Zora into exile for the next 1000 years.

Some open-endness is fine.

 

[StarMan]

The final ranking for me. After 30 years, a new series finale at the top of the top of the list. Wow, never thought I'd say that.

1. Star Trek Discovery - Life Itself - 10 out of 10
2. Star Trek The Next Generation - All Good Things - 10 out of 10
3. Star Trek DS9 - What You Leave Behind - 9
4. Star Trek Voyager - Endgame - 9
5. Star Trek Picard - 8
6. Star Trek Enterprise - These are the Voyages - 6
7. Star Trek - Turnabout Intruder - 1

Over AGT and WYLB?

Okay.

Look, they couldn't get the flame thrower permits back then. I'm sorry.

Or was it the pedestrian direction? I mean, the way the shots just ... held still for multiple seconds back then. My God.

 

[The Wormhole]

Over AGT and WYLB?

Okay.

Look, they couldn't get the flame thrower permits back then. I'm sorry.

Be that as it may, if you want top marks from me, you'll need a flame thrower on the bridge.

 

[Quantum21]

Over AGT and WYLB?

Okay.

Look, they couldn't get the flame thrower permits back then. I'm sorry.

Or was it the pedestrian direction? I mean, the way the shots just ... held still for multiple seconds back then. My God.

Yes, just as meaningful if not more so. Just as evocative. Better twists. Better looking. Less convoluted. Less techno babble. Less reset button.

 

[eschaton]

Michael chucked the portal not into the blackhole, but into the horizon.

While it appears possible to have a stable orbit within the event horizon of a black hole, I'm not sure it's possible for an item to be passively dropped into a hole and find said orbit. You'd need a craft with thrust to make adjustments to allow for that.

 

[Farscape One]

Over AGT and WYLB?

Okay.

Look, they couldn't get the flame thrower permits back then. I'm sorry.

Or was it the pedestrian direction? I mean, the way the shots just ... held still for multiple seconds back then. My God.

Someone put this finale above "All Good Things..." and "WHAT YOU LEAVE BEHIND"? (I must have missed that post.)

I guess if they feel that... good for them. But I can't possibly, in any universe, see how that can be the case.

 

[aquova]

After Season 2 ended, my preferred scenario for a potential season 3 was "Star Trek: Left Behind."

Discovery reaches the 32nd century and finds...no one to speak of. Mysterious, vacant space stations the size of planets. A virgin Earth with no signs of human life, back in the ice age, with mammoth and Smilodon. Vulcan is much the same, as is Andoria. As is nearly everywhere.

They eventually begin piecing things together, finding remnants. People left stuck in cryostasis. Sentient holograms left off for centuries. Isolated colonies of luddites. They discover that the Federation was thriving up until around a century past, and then seems to have vanished overnight.

It turns out, by the end of the season, nothing bad befell the Federation. It's just that (as has been established repeatedly in the past) the logical endpoint of every Trek culture which doesn't die out is ascending into energy beings - which is why we don't ever stumble over races millions of years old. The Federation as a whole "moved on" and it's up to Discovery to re-organize the remnants into a new Federation.

There's an old video game from the 1980s called Portal (not that one) which has a similar premise as this. You play as an astronaut who was lost in space and returned to Earth after centuries, only to find it completely abandoned. You gain access to the central computer system and begin piecing together the story of this young man who eventually leads humanity into the next stage of evolution. It's pretty clunky to play these days, but I was really intrigued by it. It actually would work pretty well as a Federation comparison, Earth has more or less become a utopia, but it discusses some of the potential issues that becoming a utopian state entails.