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Things that frustrate us all

I was watching this weekend's Tracker and it had a scene that brough to mind something that really bugs animal rights supporters. In the episode the main character, Colter Shaw, who makes a living finding missing things for the reward money, is hired to final stolen race horse, and in the scene where he meets with the horse's owner, he just talked about how much money he could lose if the horse doesn't race and the stud fees he won't get. He shows no real concern for how safe the horse is or how he's being treated, he barely even talks about him like he's a living thing, more like just a piece of property.
It's a pretty common attitude in real life horse racing, and one of the main reasons animal rights supporters hate it so much.
 
JD said:
He shows no real concern for how safe the horse is or how he's being treated, he barely even talks about him like he's a living thing, more like just a piece of property.
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Because that's what it is in that world. It's property and an investment.

I utterly despite horse racing but I get how the viewpoint occurs. Taking care of a horse is an expensive proposition, and loss of money is not a small thing to many people. It's why I'm reluctant to have animals because I know that they are expensive, and provide little in return. I know that's an unpopular opinion but animals make me uncomfortable.
 
fireproof78 said:
Because that's what it is in that world. It's property and an investment.

I utterly despite horse racing but I get how the viewpoint occurs. Taking care of a horse is an expensive proposition, and loss of money is not a small thing to many people.
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I understand why people act that way, but it just pisses me off, and fighting against those attitudes is a big part of animal rights activism.
It's why I'm reluctant to have animals because I know that they are expensive, and provide little in return. I know that's an unpopular opinion but animals make me uncomfortable.
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It's an understandable position, but we've always had dogs and I just couldn't imagine not having them around. The expensive is a negative, but for my mom and I we get enough out of having them around that it makes up for it. We did have a brief period after the last dog before the two we have now died where we didn't have any dogs, and I think we barely lasted a couple weeks before we couldn't take it any more and went and adopted Gracie (that's her in my avatar). And my dream life would be to get enough money to buy a farm and surround myself with dogs, horses, pigs, goats and maybe some cows.
 
It's not that they don't have the same values as me, it's the fact that they have so little concern for the horses wellbeing, and will regularly push them literally to the point of death just to make money off of them.
Just to give an idea of how little they actually care about the horses, I've seen trainers and experts talk about how you shouldn't ride horses until they're at least three or four years old, but yet with racing they start racing them when they're barely two years old, which means they have started training long before that.
 
JD said:
It's not that they don't have the same values as me, it's the fact that they have so little concern for the horses wellbeing, and will regularly push them literally to the point of death just to make money off of them.
Just to give an idea of how little they actually care about the horses, I've seen trainers and experts talk about how you shouldn't ride horses until they're at least three or four years old, but yet with racing they start racing them when they're barely two years old, which means they have started training long before that.
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We as humans struggle with understanding other humans wellbeing. How much more difficult for a nonhuman?
 
It's not about understanding them, it's just about not hurting them or killing them.
 
Speaking about animals, I'm against dolphin and other sea creatures shows. It's the reason why I avoid Black fish because I know I would cry for weeks afterwards, sea creatures shouldn't have to perform for our entertainment, they deserve to roam free
 
Fantasy Lover said:
Speaking about animals, I'm against dolphin and other sea creatures shows. It's the reason why I avoid Black fish because I know I would cry for weeks afterwards, sea creatures shouldn't have to perform for our entertainment, they deserve to roam free
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I watched Blackfish and it was an interesting documentary but there was one scene in it that affected me and I couldn't put it out of my mind. I used to be of the opinion that places like Seaworld were beneficial for inspiring youngsters to become interested in animal welfare and marine biology but now I think the cons of keeping orcas in captivity far outweigh the pros.

I put footage of Seaworld, Orlando from 1990 on youtube which had the former trainer Carol Ray and Orcas Katerina and Katina and someone commented that some of the footage had been used in Blackfish. They didn't specify the segment and I didn't want to analyse Blackfish to confirm if they had infact used my content without permission. There's probably youtube small print that allows them to use uploaded content anyway.

Someone else pointed out that Carol Ray says something which is also in Blackfish and as an activist against Orcas in captivity she now hates the line - "Namu is doing it because she really wants to". They were doing it because they knew it would lead to a reward of food and I'm against any animal being given food as a way of positive reinforcement.
 
fireproof78 said:
And I'll repeat: humans don't always under the hurt they cause other humans.
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If you own or train an animal and don't know what hurts them, then should not be allowed to be responsible for an animal. I find to believe that anybody involved in horse racing can say they aren't aware it's hurting them, when there are literally dozens of horses dying at every single race track every year. And just in general, if you call yourself an animal trainer and you don't know what hurts the animals you're working with, then you really need to find a new career. Even the trainers who use pain and negative reinforcement know that they're hurting the animals, they just think that is the best way to motivate them.
 
the prices in HMV will be the death of me, i have to go down to Brighton for independent stores to get anything that won’t bankrupt me tbh
 
JD said:
If you own or train an animal and don't know what hurts them, then should not be allowed to be responsible for an animal. I find to believe that anybody involved in horse racing can say they aren't aware it's hurting them, when there are literally dozens of horses dying at every single race track every year. And just in general, if you call yourself an animal trainer and you don't know what hurts the animals you're working with, then you really need to find a new career. Even the trainers who use pain and negative reinforcement know that they're hurting the animals, they just think that is the best way to motivate them.
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There's no excuse for not treating animals well. Which is why one of the first things I would probably \do if something happens to my mom is find a new home for our dogs. As much as I hate the thought of getting rid of them, I can barely take care of myself, so I know there is no way I can handle being solely responsible for their care. The only way I'd keep them is if I moved in with someone I know would be able to help take care of them.
 
People might have their "reasons", but there is nothing that justifies mistreating animals. To be fair, I'm talking about obvious abuse and neglect here, not just not taking the best care of them.
 
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JD said:
People might have their "reasons", but there is nothing that justifies mistreating animals. To be fair, I'm talking about obvious abuse and neglect here, not just not taking the best care of them.
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It's not a matter of justification. It's understanding how people can struggle with animals. Some don't show empathy for humans. Why are animals special if some can't handle humans?
 
The difference is that a lot of domesticated animals are completely reliant on us to survive, so their owner's responsibility to know how to take care of them. It's the same as with a kid or a disabled person, a person might have a "reason" for beating their child or not feeding them for months, but that doesn't make it OK.
 
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