Garrett Wang

[at Quark's]

They could have been real mean and changed his character's name to "Hairy Kim" in (some) credits.

Or just give general subtitles of their generic roles in the credits. (You know: Captain "fearless female leader" Janeway, Seven "sexy Borg Babe" of Nine, Chakotay "the token minority officer", Tom "bad boy" Paris, Harry "wimp" Kim). (And no, I don't actually think Harry was a wimp).

They could only use that excuse once, otherwise there'd be hardly any main cast left.

Also, if you do that repeatedly, it's going to solicit a 'erm, who can you write for, exactly, then?' response from the viewers.

 

[Oddish]

Or just give general subtitles of their generic roles in the credits. (You know: Captain "fearless female leader" Janeway, Seven "sexy Borg Babe" of Nine, Chakotay "the token minority officer", Tom "bad boy" Paris, Harry "wimp" Kim). (And no, I don't actually think Harry was a wimp).

That's a topic title in and of itself. I'd more do Kathryn "Chuck Norris" Janeway, B'Elanna "Klingon on a Treadmill" Torres, "Bar Rodent" Neelix, etc.

Also, if you do that repeatedly, it's going to solicit a 'erm, who can you write for, exactly, then?' response from the viewers.

Well: Seven, EMH
Adequately: Janeway, Tuvok, Paris
Sort of: B'Elanna, Kes, Chakotay (earlier seasons)
Not at All: Kim, Neelix, Chakotay (latter seasons)

 

[fireproof78]

What a horrible punishment. "We're gonna keep you around, pay you a fabulous salary for seven years, guarantee you pretty much easy money for life at conventions...BUT your character isn't going to get a promotion. Ha! Suck on that!"

And subjected to ongoing ridicule and "eternal ensign" jokes.

It was a stupid decision for odd reasons.

 

[Lynx]

They could only use that excuse once, otherwise there'd be hardly any main cast left.

They did it one time too many in Voyager.

 

[Oddish]

And subjected to ongoing ridicule and "eternal ensign" jokes.

It was a stupid decision for odd reasons.

Was it just stupid? Or has the past 30 years been exactly what they wanted to happen? Why have they been completely unwilling to put an end to it?

They did it one time too many in Voyager.

Or with the wrong person. Given their unwillingness to do anything with Harry, and that Robert Beltran didn't want to be there, either would have been a more sound choice.

 

[DonIago]

Was it just stupid? Or has the past 30 years been exactly what they wanted to happen? Why have they been completely unwilling to put an end to it?

TBF, the "they" who declined to promote Harry during VOY's run aren't the same people as the current "they". I doubt the past they gave much thought to how their decision might impact the 'future of the franchise'...never mind that I think for the vast majority of Trek fans Harry's lack of a promotion is more of a small joke, if one in poor taste, than anything meriting the amount of digital ink that we've put to the topic.

 

[Oddish]

TBF, the "they" who declined to promote Harry during VOY's run aren't the same people as the current "they".

I know that, of course. But given that Garrett Wang has been eminently available, and there have been six iterations of Trek since 2017, doesn't it seem odd that he never appeared once?

never mind that I think for the vast majority of Trek fans Harry's lack of a promotion is more of a small joke, if one in poor taste, than anything meriting the amount of digital ink that we've put to the topic.

I think it was more than a small joke, because once a joke ceases to be funny, you move on from it. When people started wanting to know why Tom got his rank back and Harry was still an ensign, the showrunners rubbed their noses in the fact that Harry's rank wasn't changing and if they didn't like it, they could piss off.

And you know what? This is the "why wasn't Harry promoted" topic. If you feel that an excessive amount of 1's and 0's have been devoted to it, there's plenty of other topics here.

 

[DonIago]

I know that, of course. But given that Garrett Wang has been eminently available, and there have been six iterations of Trek since 2017, doesn't it seem odd that he never appeared once?

How many of the DS9 actors/characters have appeared in anything since that series ended?

In other words...no, it doesn't seem odd to me.

 

[Farscape One]

I don't agree with Oddish that it's odd Kim hasn't appeared, but I can see why that conclusion can be drawn.

From VOY: Janeway, Chakotay, Tuvok, Paris, and Seven have appeared in at least one show in the current era. That's more than half the cast, since Neelix stayed in the Delta Quadrant.

 

[DonIago]

My feeling is that most of those appearances are recent enough that another way of looking at it is that the current PTB simply haven't had the time/appropriate opportunity to bring back everyone they'd like to bring back.

If there's another few years of this many series going on, with returning actors, and Kim still hasn't appeared, then I think there will be a stronger case.

I'd rather see Kim not return at all than return in an episode where it makes no sense or where it's handled excessively poorly.

 

[Oddish]

That's more than half the cast, since Neelix stayed in the Delta Quadrant.

With the proto-drive and quantum slipstream drive both a reality in 2383, I wouldn't declare Neelix out of reach either.

Getting back to Harry and Section 31, I actually find the idea intriguing. With the dual anchors of no promotion and a reprimand (albeit an undeserved one), it's easy to see how his career could be permanently affected, which might give him a nasty core of cynicism. He could see S31 as a new opportunity for success.

 

[at Quark's]

I think it was more than a small joke, because once a joke ceases to be funny, you move on from it.

I wouldn't know about that. Neelix being close to the worst cook imaginable was funny once, perhaps twice (and perhaps more generally, making him be the Jar Jar Binks of Star Trek), but they kept at it for years. (Still, I don't think there was any ill will involved in that case, but certainly lack of imagination).

 

[Oddish]

A lot of characters were stuck in a rut of sorts. Neelix the ever-cheerful bad cook, B'Elanna the conflicted about her heritage (she'd have been more interesting as a hothead, but they ended that), Chakotay the "guy who used to engage in new-age spirituality but we ended that and didn't replace it with anything". Tuvok changed little, but as a 100-year-old Vulcan that kind of made sense. Harry's arc wasn't that much more stunted than the others, but it was done in a way that made him a target of ridicule. This might have been unintentional, for people who can't even ration out 38 torpedoes, the realization that an ensign is supposed to make lieutenant may be too much to ask. But to me, it just seemed like there was a hint of "we can't fire this guy, so let's make him look as ridiculous as possible". YMMV.

 

[fireproof78]

I wouldn't know about that. Neelix being close to the worst cook imaginable was funny once, perhaps twice (and perhaps more generally, making him be the Jar Jar Binks of Star Trek), but they kept at it for years. (Still, I don't think there was any ill will involved in that case, but certainly lack of imagination).

What is very frustrating for Neelix, and a lot of other crew, but they were ignoring so many facets of what was established. Neelix was a cook and a survival expert yet routinely was shown as failing at both. If he was shown to a person trying to elevate himself by exaggerating his skills that would be one thing. But, it's played as a joke.

 

[Tuskin38]

Did you know that Harry Kim got so p*ssed off at being a perpetual ensign and never getting promoted that he joined Section 31?

Linkie

Huh, he's not part of Section 31 in that comic. Just Starfleet intellgience.

I think the article writer needs to re-read (or actually read) the comic.

 

[Lynx]

Was it just stupid? Or has the past 30 years been exactly what they wanted to happen? Why have they been completely unwilling to put an end to it?



Or with the wrong person. Given their unwillingness to do anything with Harry, and that Robert Beltran didn't want to be there, either would have been a more sound choice.

It would have been better if they had tried to develope those characters because both Harry Kim and Chakotay had great potential.

They are better in the early Voyager books!

 

[Tosk]

Huh, he's not part of Section 31 in that comic. Just Starfleet intellgience.

I think the article writer needs to re-read (or actually read) the comic.

It's Screenrant. Garbage for the masses.

 

[Phaser Two]

From VOY: Janeway, Chakotay, Tuvok, Paris, and Seven have appeared in at least one show in the current era. That's more than half the cast, since Neelix stayed in the Delta Quadrant.

My feeling is that most of those appearances are recent enough that another way of looking at it is that the current PTB simply haven't had the time/appropriate opportunity to bring back everyone they'd like to bring back.

If there's another few years of this many series going on, with returning actors, and Kim still hasn't appeared, then I think there will be a stronger case.

I'd rather see Kim not return at all than return in an episode where it makes no sense or where it's handled excessively poorly.

The Doctor is also appearing in S2 of Prodigy - that's not a spoiler since it has been widely reported. So we're up to everyone in the final main cast (subtracting Neelix) except Torres and Kim. I don't really know what the argument for some supposed bias against Garrett, is, but I think the involvement of all of these Voyager characters and actors (with Prodigy basically functioning as a Voyager sequel in many ways) means that Harry's return is inevitable.

IIRC, Garrett was supposed to appear in Picard but it didn't work out, and everyone seemed to be genuinely disappointed by that and looking forward to another chance. There were no reports of angst behind the scenes of which I'm aware, and pretty much everything juicy about Star Trek leaks, suggesting strongly there's no there there. Meanwhile, McNeill and Beltran also turned down appearances on Picard for availability (McNeill) and/or creative reasons (Beltran), opting instead for voice appearances that are much easier to coordinate. Dawson is busy with her directing; there's no evidence that she's being blacklisted. Additionally, Garrett is involved with the highest levels of fandom in coordinating conventions, a position that necessarily means interactions with Star Trek production. And he co-hosts a highly popular podcast that is certainly not hurting the producers or the franchise, and in fact is almost certainly helping them.

There's really no plausible argument that Garrett is being blacklisted.

 

[DonIago]

^This seems like a reasonable analysis to me. If one is going to suggest that there's existing animus against Wang, I'd like to see some strong supporting evidence beyond the circumstantial.

 

[Oddish]

If Starfleet intelligence is like the CIA, Section 31 seems equivalent to that no-name agency that officially doesn't exist.

It would have been better if they had tried to develope those characters because both Harry Kim and Chakotay had great potential.

Harry might have has the most potential of all, given that they could have done almost anything with him. Seeing him wasted the way he was is like watching a pro basketball player miss a slam dunk.

So we're up to everyone in the final main cast (subtracting Neelix) except Torres and Kim.

Torres got a mention in one of Janeway's logs. She's presumably with BuShips, since she helped design the Dauntless.

That leaves Neelix and Harry.

I don't really know what the argument for some supposed bias against Garrett, is, but I think the involvement of all of these Voyager characters and actors (with Prodigy basically functioning as a Voyager sequel in many ways) means that Harry's return is inevitable.

If I remember correctly, they said there would be two returning characters in PRO S2, one VOY and one not. Assuming the EMH is the VOY one, Harry might not have been scheduled to show up in S2. And if later seasons will happen is very much up in the air.

IIRC, Garrett was supposed to appear in Picard but it didn't work out, and everyone seemed to be genuinely disappointed by that and looking forward to another chance.

I believe it. Nearly every non-canon alt future I've seen has him promoted to captain, with his own command. The logical conclusion is that that's the tentative canon career path for him... if one ever exists.

Additionally, Garrett is involved with the highest levels of fandom in coordinating conventions, a position that necessarily means interactions with Star Trek production. And he co-hosts a highly popular podcast that is certainly not hurting the producers or the franchise, and in fact is almost certainly helping them.

That's why I find it odd that he never appeared! They chased down Ensign Sito's voice actor, who hadn't been on screen in 25+ years, but they didn't use a main cast actor who was RIGHT THERE!

There's really no plausible argument that Garrett is being blacklisted.

I'd like to see some strong supporting evidence beyond the circumstantial.

Obviously, I have none to give. But that doesn't mean I can't amuse myself with conspiracy theories. I don't actually buy into most of them... though you never know.