I wonder what in Scotty's psych profile made him wonder that.
Mental illness in TOS
- Thread starter Laura Cynthia Chambers
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I may or may not have written about a quarter of his biography asking questions like that. >.>
Isn't he distracted when he gets really into his work, or when he's trying to stop an imminent cataclysm? And being awkward around other people doesn't necessarily mean you're autistic. What examples do you have?
I've heard that before. I figure there's no proof, but it's still a perfectly acceptable headcanon for someone to have. Neurodivergence in the 23rd century would hopefully just be another part of the human condition, too, rather than something pathologized. Though poor Barclay -- who explicitly seems to be neurodivergent -- sure gets treated pretty rough because of it.
But like-- if you watch Scotty, he's pretty selective about how he makes eye contact (or doesn't), he really does get socially awkward, he probably can hyperfocus like a pro. Perfect functionality, though, isn't just a neurotypical trait. He could be neurodivergent and perfectly functional at the same time. XD
Though, like, actually watch him, because the man in canon isn't all that much like his fanon characterization or zeitgeist. People like to latch onto him being dopey -- which he is sometimes -- and completely forget that this GQMFer was gonna go right down the throats of some Klingons, stone-facedly threaten to genocide a whole planet, told the Romulans that he'll blow his ship to kingdom come and take as many of them with him as possible, sat with his finger on the button to maybe take out the Kelvans--
Neurotypical or neurodivergent, actual certifiable badass.
He can rise to the occasion when it calls for it. Probably saving up his "don't mess with me"-ery for the times he needs it, because most of the time, he's dealing with reasonable people, particularly his friends and colleagues.
It's interesting that you interpret Adams himself as mentally ill. In the original script, his actions are driven by pure ambition, he feels he's essentially done too good a job, and that humanity now takes him for granted. This, of course, did not make it past Roddenberry's desk, who didn't like the idea that a future human society would neglect someone enough to send them down that road, but in editing it out, he never really gave Adams a new motivation, and so it makes sense that some viewers would assume madness, given the rest of the episode.
That erroneous, near-sighted belief, if sincerely held and dwelled upon, can lead to an obsession with making people see things your way, which in turn can produce irrational, unconscionable behavior.
We see it in Daystrom.
So in "Is There in Truth no Beauty" we have four possibility for mental issues - Miranda, Marvick before and after seeing Kollos and Spock after seeing Kollos.
So Marvick tried to kill Kollos before he even saw Kollos so was he bad or did he have mental illness? I mean Marvick is a grown man so he should understand that not everyone gets the girl they want. And did he think killing Kollos by would impress Miranda ? Did Marvick think it was OK to kill Kollos because he wasn't human?
Did Miranda actually cause Spock to forget his goggles? I mean how powerful is Miranda as a telepath? I suppose that she might be in some sort of a link with Kollos and in that way she was able to sneak into Spock's mind while Spock was connected to Kollos. Still she seemed pretty shocked at Kirk's accusation - so I think if she did it then it was subconsciously. Does that mean that Miranda has some mental illness trying to kill Spock because of her jealousy. I think at worst it was - she was thinking I hate you Spock I wish you would die, then oops sorry my mad telepathic powers can do that.
I don't think Marvick and Spock can be held responsible for what they did after they saw Kollos. It was like they were drugged. The same thing that happened to McCoy in COTEOF. So not really mental illness at best like a temporary psychosis.
So Marvick tried to kill Kollos before he even saw Kollos so was he bad or did he have mental illness? I mean Marvick is a grown man so he should understand that not everyone gets the girl they want. And did he think killing Kollos by would impress Miranda ? Did Marvick think it was OK to kill Kollos because he wasn't human?
Did Miranda actually cause Spock to forget his goggles? I mean how powerful is Miranda as a telepath? I suppose that she might be in some sort of a link with Kollos and in that way she was able to sneak into Spock's mind while Spock was connected to Kollos. Still she seemed pretty shocked at Kirk's accusation - so I think if she did it then it was subconsciously. Does that mean that Miranda has some mental illness trying to kill Spock because of her jealousy. I think at worst it was - she was thinking I hate you Spock I wish you would die, then oops sorry my mad telepathic powers can do that.
I don't think Marvick and Spock can be held responsible for what they did after they saw Kollos. It was like they were drugged. The same thing that happened to McCoy in COTEOF. So not really mental illness at best like a temporary psychosis.
I just started my first new viewing of TOS in over a decade, currently watching Where None Have Gone Before. A guy develops powers and it's immediately assumed he will misuse them, then he does. TOS has a low opinion of anyone who isn't cognitively identical to average humans.
Too much, too fast.
That is hilarious! Best line I’ve heard in a long time. Bravo.
And this is what makes the episode so excellent. We know that Scotty is being framed, but we have no idea how.
It's the kind of story that works best when you already know the guy from prior episodes, just as the characters know Scotty from having worked alongside him: you're not just taking their word for it. A similar episode with a character of the week who the main characters know would hit different - you would have more reason for suspicion, while they would be fairly certain of that person's innocence, but still having a nagging fear they might be wrong.
What I wonder is: did the writers take what both of you have said into account, or was the story written for just any crewman, and then someone realized it would give Doohan/Scotty some unusual material to do?
If it was a Guy We've Never Met Before and Won't Meet Again, then the audience would say "This is ridiculous, he's so obviously guilty, and Kirk is trying to get him off Scot-free." And then the Redjack Space Monster would be like a crazy Deus Ex Machina solution that makes fools of the audience.
But if the audience is on Scotty's side because they know him, then when Redjack comes along, they'll say "Of course, I knew it!" It's a whole different vibe.
Kirk's dialogue would have to be subtly different in each case: Kirk in TOS is made to seem heroic, so he should not be be shown as trying to get the crewman off if that is not the truth. So Kirk would have to be given some reason to need to get the guy off apart from his actual innocence for your first version to play out. It would be interesting if an early draft with that approach existed. Although the way you put it suggests that putting Scotty or another of the continuing supporting characters in the role of the accused really does make the most sense for showing Kirk the way they wanted to show him in TOS.