What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[The Knappos]

I am a lucky little sod. I like every Trek series.
Yes, some more than others, some less than others.
But I'm a fan of the lot.


Except Nemesis.

 

[Farscape One]

I am a lucky little sod. I like every Trek series.
Yes, some more than others, some less than others.
But I'm a fan of the lot.


Except Nemesis.

This, and add '09 and INTO DARKNESS, is me, as well.

 

[cooleddie74]

NEM and STID are the bottom dwellers of the movie franchise. Which one occupies the spot of worst of the bunch depends on the day and my mood at the time.

 

[Vger23]

TOS is the best, but that hardly makes everything else trash. I've watched every episode of every series with 2 exceptions (I haven't seen the latest SNW episode yet, and I turned off "Peanut Hamper- The Sequel" about 7 min into the episode). And I agree that there are no trash series in Star Trek. If you compare them relative to each other, there are definitely series that I feel are far inferior to others, but in the grand scheme of things, they are not bad.

I don't like Star Trek: Insurrection, but I do revisit it every now and then. I don't really care at all about Star Trek: Lower Decks, but I wouldn't say it's trash or not good. I just don't find it at all interesting, but hey that's my problem.

I also find that I often like episodes or movies that others heavily criticize. I like all of S3 TOS (there are crap episodes in there, but hey, S1 had "Mudd's Women," "Alternative Factor," and "Miri"...so it happens). I like "Encounter at Farpoint" quite a bit, and it routinely ranks as the lowest-liked pilot. I love Star Trek V and I like Star Trek Nemesis to a point.

I think fans get too high and low on stuff. "ENT S1 is the worst EVER...but ENT S4 is AWESOME..." while really neither is true. I think fans also get a strange resentment toward what they perceive as "rival series." I see a lot of TNG-era fans get frustrated with TOS because they are irritated that their series are still caught in the shadow of the original. I see a lot of DSC fans get irritated with SNW because there's a new live action show that is more universally accepted. I see a lot of TNG fans frustrated with PIC because PIC somewhat deconstructs TNG and, in some people's minds, makes it better.

I think fandom would be better if people just enjoyed what they enjoyed, and don't feel like everything is a competition.

 

[cooleddie74]

I mean, ANH and ESB are to me peak Star Wars but that doesn't mean that Andor, Rogue One and Solo aren't good or fun or both and have no entertainment value. Great franchises always contain dreck and mediocre films or episodes but also maintain a level of remarkable quality over the decades, a feat even more impressive when you realize how many long-running TV shows, movie trilogies or book series just fall flat or start to suck after a few years.

 

[Darth Thanos]

I have been using the streaming lately to get up-to-date with the old Star Trek series. I'm currently watching The Next Generation, Deep Space 9 and Enterprise, jumping from one series to the next all the time. And by a cosmic coincidence, I have saw "Q Who" (first encounter of Picard with the Borg) followed by "Regeneration" (first encounter of Archer with the Borg).

My controversial opinion? Archer and his crew managed the situation better. And he did not have Guinan to explain what were they fighting against, nor a Q-ex-machina to magically get them out of trouble with a snap of his fingers.

 

[cooleddie74]

"Regeneration" is the best Borg story of any kind and in any series since the release of First Contact.

 

[Orphalesion]

No, my point is people on this site act like TOS is the greatest ever and everything afterwards is trash. It's annoying

Yeah certain people here do that. It is by no means every TOS fan here, the people who do this are definitely the minority, but it does get a little annoying at times.
(and to be clear, saying they like TOS better than the rest is by no means "trash talking" the other shows, I think we all know the type of comments MikHutch her and I are talking about)

 

[Elder Knight]

Was.

People don’t do much of ‘is’ once they are dead.

Not too much of a stretch to guess that every moment of the day Nimoy is playing Spock on some TV (or movie) screen somewhere!

 

[Rahul]

"Regeneration" is the best Borg story of any kind and in any series since the release of First Contact.

I disagree. But only because I think VOY's Scorpion is the best one since "First Contact".
"Regeneration" would be the 2nd best since then (and mostly only because of Phlox' immunity arc - the rest is superb).

Together with "Best of both worlds" and "I, Borg", these are the absolute Top 5 best Borg stories.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Is Regeneration in Season 2? I think it must be. I have an Enterprise marathon that I really need to get back to.

 

[cooleddie74]

One of the last episodes of Season 2. It aired in the spring of 2003.

 

[Tallguy]

That's not what we're talking about though. The "circular bridge with stations around the outside, central command chair, forward helm station" concept is one thing. The TOS execution of it as an actual set is another. Or are you honestly claiming there's no visual difference between the bridge in TOS, the bridge in SNW, and the bridge in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country?

Again, not what we're talking about. The "saucer-secondary hull-nacelles" concept is one thing. The TOS execution of it is an actual starship design is another thing entirely. the TOS Enterprise is specifically invoked in-universe as a fun retro easter egg in a way no other starship design is, even other ship designs that are decades old. The Constitution refit design is 45 years old at this point. Why do you suppose its design is not used as a retro callback today in the same way that the TOS Enterprise interior and exterior were when they were relatively much younger in the 90s?

Also not what we're talking about. And while I may love the Enterprise-D to distraction, I'm also actually capable of critically appraising some of the execution in the final sets and understanding why it's not a universally perfect timeless design (it's beige FFS!).

We're talking about

Design so advanced that the various movie and series production teams including Roddenberry himself deliberately ignored, if not outright retconned, it until the 1990s?

And for the entire Motion Picture Era while the shapes were (usually) changed the layouts and particulars were often (though not always - engineering) followed. As the movies went on there were designs (and sound FX) that moved CLOSER to TOS.

If you think the similarity between the TMP Enterprise and the TOS Enterprise end with "saucer-secondary hull-nacelles" then you should dig deeper. That's the connection between most Fed starships. But the TOS/TMP connection is closer than that.

The only thing that was outright abandoned after TOS was the uniforms.

TNG moved the bridge much further away (so I suppose you could say Roddenberry abandoned it -- eight years after TMP). And nobody has used anything resembling that bridge ever again unless to specifically say "Hey look! It's the TNG bridge." One time.

As for "beige"? Would you rather spend 8 hours a day trying to do detailed scientific work on the TOS bridge / the D bridge or the blinky shiny lights at eye level monstrosities that are the JJ bridge or (heaven help us) the Disco bridge?

 

[1001001]

One of the last episodes of Season 2. It aired in the spring of 2003.

Interesting factoid: the Federation Scientist who gets assimilated is played by Billingsley’s wife, and my good buddy, Bonnie Friedericy.

 

[fireproof78]

As for "beige"? Would you rather spend 8 hours a day trying to do detailed scientific work on the TOS bridge / the D bridge or the blinky shiny lights at eye level monstrosities that are the JJ bridge or (heaven help us) the Disco bridge?

JJ and Disco for me.

Hate beige. Cannot stand it, and the four walls of my office are beige. And that's annoying.

 

[Macintosh]

We're talking about

No, we're talking about: TOs did not have anything approaching "cardboard" sets, but designs--particularly for the 1701--that were advanced for their era and influenced generations of sci-fi designs... The visual strength of TOS was the reason it was so seamlessly blended into shows produced decades later...

DESIGN CONCEPT is not the same as the VISUAL REALITY.

And for the entire Motion Picture Era while the shapes were (usually) changed the layouts and particulars were often (though not always - engineering) followed. As the movies went on there were designs (and sound FX) that moved CLOSER to TOS.

Because of the memberberries. The TOS sound effects wouldn't be used today if they weren't already used for TOS. They sound too goofy in isolation.

If you think the similarity between the TMP Enterprise and the TOS Enterprise end with "saucer-secondary hull-nacelles" then you should dig deeper. That's the connection between most Fed starships. But the TOS/TMP connection is closer than that.

The only thing that was outright abandoned after TOS was the uniforms.

Please, elucidate. Because it's a critical plot point of TMP that it's basically a brand new ship. Aside from the basic arrangement it's very different inside and out.

TNG moved the bridge much further away (so I suppose you could say Roddenberry abandoned it -- eight years after TMP). And nobody has used anything resembling that bridge ever again unless to specifically say "Hey look! It's the TNG bridge." One time.

And again, this is literally not what we're arguing about. But have fun straw manning because it's the only way for you to deal with people pointing out that TOS looks like cheap 60s pulp sci-fi television, which was the original point, and instead keep pretending that it stands fully equal with the best production values of the 2020s. Your Emperor remains fully clothed.

As for "beige"? Would you rather spend 8 hours a day trying to do detailed scientific work on the TOS bridge / the D bridge or the blinky shiny lights at eye level monstrosities that are the JJ bridge or (heaven help us) the Disco bridge?

I'd rather spend 8 hours a day doing detailed scientific work in a lab rather than any winky-blinky-bleepy starship bridge, but that's probably because I'm an actual biologist

Also, did I not say that I love the Enterprise-D to distraction, or is any vaguely critical phrase to be over-reacted to? I'm fine with a bridge having a nice neutral colour palette, I just think that specific beige used on the Enterprise-D, the "80s video game ageing plastic" beige, isn't the colour I'd have chosen in an ideal world if I'd been in charge. I don't think there's anything wrong with stating that. I don't think it significantly impacts my enjoyment of the show to think that and it sure as hell shouldn't impact anyone else's. I love the concept of the Enterprise-D bridge, especially the whole design evolution deconstructing what the bridge should even be for in the 24th century. Similarly, although TNG is my favourite Star Trek series, I am simultaneously aware of its flaws, and find some of its plots, effects, and performances to be positively toe-curling today. So what?

 

[Lord Garth]

"ENT S1 is the worst EVER...but ENT S4 is AWESOME..."

Season 2 is actually the worst season of ENT. Season 4 is up to a level that I would call good.

I see a lot of DSC fans get irritated with SNW because there's a new live action show that is more universally accepted.

Not true. I expect SNW to be more accepted because it's a 2020s version of what got most of us into Star Trek in the first place. I understand that the Traditional Format is going to be more accepted. If anything, now that we have SNW, it allows the other shows to go further out there because we can say, "Don't like X series? Watch SNW!" But I wasn't lying all those years when I said I wasn't interested in a Back to Basics series. I wasn't lying when I said most of what I've watched in the last 15 or so years is serialized. SNW is not the type of thing I go for these days. But I don't have a problem with its existence (unlike other people who have a problem with the very existence of some other series or ideas). I don't even have a problem with it being more accepted. What I have a problem with is some individuals constantly trying to shove the series down our throats and bashing other series just as much in the process. And they've shifted their target, by the way. It's not about bashing DSC anymore. They've moved on from that, it looks like. Now it's about bashing PIC, the series in general but especially Season 3.

I think fandom would be better if people just enjoyed what they enjoyed, and don't feel like everything is a competition.

This much is true.

 

[cooleddie74]

I adore ENT and you're right. Season 2 is the worst. By a tangible margin.

 

[fireproof78]

I see a lot of DSC fans get irritated with SNW because there's a new live action show that is more universally accepted. I see a lot of TNG fans frustrated with PIC because PIC somewhat deconstructs TNG and, in some people's minds, makes it better.

Nah. I fear anything that is universally accepted at any level in entertainment. I do agree on the PIC deconstruction part because I believe things should hold up to a measure of scrutiny.

I think fandom would be better if people just enjoyed what they enjoyed, and don't feel like everything is a competition.

This I agree on. It has angered me (irrationally so) ever since I had the whole Kirk vs. Picard debates back in grade school. What pointless BS.

I mean, ANH and ESB are to me peak Star Wars but that doesn't mean that Andor, Rogue One and Solo aren't good or fun or both and have no entertainment value.

Quite so. And entertainment is the goal.

And again, this is literally not what we're arguing about. But have fun straw manning because it's the only way for you to deal with people pointing out that TOS looks like cheap 60s pulp sci-fi television, which was the original point, and instead keep pretending that it stands fully equal with the best production values of the 2020s. Your Emperor remains fully clothed.

Again, would love someone to take on making a 2020s show with the 1960s aesthetic perfectly recreated for Star Trek as a prime time show. Please, go ahead.

Similarly, although TNG is my favourite Star Trek series, I am simultaneously aware of its flaws, and find some of its plots, effects, and performances to be positively toe-curling today. So what?

Um, you're not supposed to say that Trek has flaws, especially TNG!

 

[Macintosh]

What pointless BS.

Okay, while skimming through I read this as "What pointless B5" and was about to come out swinging...