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Paramount loses more than a quarter of its value, analyst believes they should "just quit streaming"

I’m sure an audience exists. But they’re likely D+ or Netflix subscribers, not P+ ones. It took a move from YouTube Red to Netflix to find an audience for Cobra Kai.

And for every Cobra Kai that finds its place, there's a ????? that quietly drops off the radar into oblivion. I have doubts about PRO being the former*... but maybe at least it can find enough of a foothold that we'll get the 40 episodes that were made, and the show will come to a satisfying conclusion. And as long as it's streamable somewhere, it will always be a port of entry into the Trek franchise for kids.

*I'd love to be proven wrong, and see PRO get a third season, and maybe more.

We need to dig out the old threads where we were predicting how long this golden age was gonna last. 5 or 6 years since Discovery's debut ain't bad.

Discovery
Short Treks
Picard
Lower Decks
Strange New Worlds
Prodigy

We'll never ever have it that good again!

If we're reduced to just SNW and LD, we still have two Trek series active. Just like the years between 1993 and 1999.

It's actually amazing how similar Picard S3 was to the type of fan fiction I wrote when I was twelve years old. Hell, even their decision to pilfer music from all the franchise's greatest hits is also similar to how I imagined the movie versions of said fanfics back then.

I've seen that phenomenon before, most notably the Evil Green Tummy Minster sequence in "Harry Potter and the Half-blood Prince". It reminded me of a bad fanfiction I had seen years before.
 
All of the new Star Trek streaming shows have been juvenile.

They probably spent a billion dollars on them.

Would’ve been nice to have gotten something a bit more mature writing-wise.

I’d love to see Breaking Bad meets Star Trek.
 
That's why P+ has so few subscribers compared to other platforms. Paramount (like so many other companies) saw the success of Netflix and wanted to hop on the streaming bandwagon, without considering that they don't really have the library to justify having their own streaming service.
I mean, that's what a lot of companies wanted to do because they wanted money to flow to them, rather than licensing out and managing multiple contracts. It just wasn't sustainable from a business strategy for most providers. Even Disney is experiencing a severe contraction with this, so this isn't just a Paramount thing, but an industry wide problem. Largely because consumers don't want to keep track of multiple systems, as my dad was complaining about recently. Consumers are also experiencing a tightening in terms of economics, at least in the US, with inflation rising and causing a lot of belt tightening. And, like it or not, streaming services are a luxury item, not a necessity and will be axed out of the budget first.

Not saying Paramount is not suffering due to poor business choices. Just that they were not the only one and it's a whole contraction across the industry.
 
Star Trek would be better off piggybacking someone else’s streaming service. Netflix/Amazon etc.

Doctor Who is in a similar ‘big but not that big’ bracket to Star Trek and the BBC have arranged to air their show through Disney+.

I imagine Doctor Who will do very well under the auspice of the House of the Mouse, whereas I think it would flounder, similarly to Trek, if the BBC were to try to build a streaming service around it.
 
I mean, that's what a lot of companies wanted to do because they wanted money to flow to them, rather than licensing out and managing multiple contracts. It just wasn't sustainable from a business strategy for most providers. Even Disney is experiencing a severe contraction with this, so this isn't just a Paramount thing, but an industry wide problem. Largely because consumers don't want to keep track of multiple systems, as my dad was complaining about recently. Consumers are also experiencing a tightening in terms of economics, at least in the US, with inflation rising and causing a lot of belt tightening. And, like it or not, streaming services are a luxury item, not a necessity and will be axed out of the budget first.

Not saying Paramount is not suffering due to poor business choices. Just that they were not the only one and it's a whole contraction across the industry.

I’ll be cutting P+ once SNW finishes up. I don’t like being forced into a ShowTime plus Paramount bundle.
 
Star Trek would be better off piggybacking someone else’s streaming service. Netflix/Amazon etc.

Doctor Who is in a similar ‘big but not that big’ bracket to Star Trek and the BBC have arranged to air their show through Disney+.

I imagine Doctor Who will do very well under the auspice of the House of the Mouse, whereas I think it would flounder, similarly to Trek, if the BBC were to try to build a streaming service around it.

At its highest point, there were three DW shows running. Makes sense to have it on D+, where more money can be thrown at the franchise. It’s biggest problem now is that its fandom has gone toxic.
 
At its highest point, there were three DW shows running. Makes sense to have it on D+, where more money can be thrown at the franchise. It’s biggest problem now is that its fandom has gone toxic.

I had to take a big step away from Doctor Who fandom over the past few years. I was a Gallifreybase poster since pretty much the start of it and finally asked for my account to be deleted a few years back. A cesspit.

My quitting that place actually coincides with me joining here. I do like to have some kind of forum to post on, but GB… ugh.

But then, Trek, SW and the MCU have similar dark pockets in their fandoms.
 
I had to take a big step away from Doctor Who fandom over the past few years. I was a Gallifreybase poster since pretty much the start of it and finally asked for my account to be deleted a few years back. A cesspit.

My quitting that place actually coincides with me joining here. I do like to have some kind of forum to post on, but GB… ugh.

But then, Trek, SW and the MCU have similar dark pockets in their fandoms.

Once Jodie became the Doctor fandom imploded. I went to Gallifrey One this year, and a lot of the regular attendees weren’t there.

The good thing about Trek is that it has been solidly progressive from the start, so I don’t see it imploding like DW. But its fandom isn’t as big as Star Wars, so maybe turning P+ into the home of Trek was a bad idea.
 
Once Jodie became the Doctor fandom imploded. I went to Gallifrey One this year, and a lot of the regular attendees weren’t there.

The good thing about Trek is that it has been solidly progressive from the start, so I don’t see it imploding like DW. But its fandom isn’t as big as Star Wars, so maybe turning P+ into the home of Trek was a bad idea.

I don't think all people stopped watching Doctor Who just because Jodie became the Doctor. I stopped because I was looking for a way to stop during the Capaldi era and Jodie's first season was not written very well. It was no fault of her at all, but more on the writers.
 
OK, this is only tangentially related to the topic, but recently I've been wondering something. In the UK, on Paramount+ the feature-length episodes have been split up into two parts. By that I mean "Encounter at Farpoint", "What You Leave Behind", etc. Even, bizarrely, PRO: "Lost and Found" (I assume that this predated the current situation). My question is, is this the case in the US as well? Or are they in one whole episode as they were originally aired?
 
Maybe I misinterpreted what he did say because I saw it as the fandom imploded because they cast a woman as a doctor.

As for my Avatar, I might bring it back later, but it represents how I've been feeling the last few days.

I think they meant that fandom turned nasty which in places it most certainly did.

Like you, for me Jodie wasn’t the turn-off. The lacklustre writing was.
 
I had to take a big step away from Doctor Who fandom over the past few years. I was a Gallifreybase poster since pretty much the start of it and finally asked for my account to be deleted a few years back. A cesspit.

My quitting that place actually coincides with me joining here. I do like to have some kind of forum to post on, but GB… ugh.

But then, Trek, SW and the MCU have similar dark pockets in their fandoms.
I'm still on there.

It's nowhere near as pleasant as on here, but it's O.K. Mind you, I hang around the 'less regulated' area and the politics threads. There are some assholes.
 
I think they meant that fandom turned nasty which in places it most certainly did.

Like you, for me Jodie wasn’t the turn-off. The lacklustre writing was.

Pretty much this.

Star Trek fandom is more pleasant these days.

Has anyone tried P+ since the Showtime merge today?
 
So streaming essentially was built on debt, massive debts. Until the last year or two, Wall Street didn't mind; it was about market share. Then when Netflix announced it had lost subscribers, it essentially announced that everyone who would subscribe had done so, and there could only be a fall in numbers. No more subscribers to tap into. That means the streaming business was no longer a licence to print money; that companies couldn't afford to lose so much money on a venture that might never be profitable - that was only going to decline in success.
A lot of it is interest rates. Low interest rates encourage businesses to listen to people who 'claim" to see the future.
Means inexperienced people, or people with specific agendas get advanced and the meat and potatoes people get marginalized. Because the meat and potatoes types don't have a lot of ideas for growth.

In addition not only are you not concerned with current income, you have no way of gauging who is out to lunch and who has their finger on the pulse. Companies as a result get trapped with all their eggs in the baskets of agenda driven projects.


Soon as interests go up, growth isn't the value it's short term quarterly profits. This is gonna be an absolute bloodbath, so many incompetent people so many people losing their jobs.











Also, has new trek really been a "massive success"? We live in an echo chamber, one which easily validates how we feel with circumstantial evidence to convince us of it - and that's a danger, as we put forward claims like that without being sure what we mean or even if it is true. What do you mean, "a massive success", and can you prove it?
It's never been a better time to avoid people with personalities that are different than your own. The internet/cell phones, means you never really have to engage in a social relationship with someone you're not naturally similar to. Even in work Human Resources has made it so personalities can't clash. this means you never have a tangible way of learning how to deal with other people if you work in certain social environments.

if you're an empathetic person, the world around you has made it very hard to understand someone with less empathy.

Empathetic people are exhausting to be around for the less agreeable. If you're modestly disagreeable you really aren't all that interested in the feelings of others. When you shove it down their throats they tune out. They also are more likely to see agreeable people as gullible and not to be trusted because they're so easily manipulated by social predators.

I.e. seeing people crying is a turn this crap off reflex.
EDIT: agreeableness is complicated, you can be an empathetic person and full of hostility, you can have no interest in the emotions of others while being very restrained/kind.



If you're not naturally open minded, being bombarded by novel ideas is exhausting and something to be avoided at all costs. At the same time if you're open minded, a series of explosions and fist fits is just dull repetitive nonsense.

If you're naturally an orderly person people disobeying orders, in poorly lit/dirty environments, swearing etc, is just a massive turn off.

This singular issue of differences of personality has transformed into a mental health crisis. A simple example is addiction homelessness. Disagreeable don't care, agreeable people care but they can't process that the majority of homeless people are relatively disagreeable. So their entire thesis radically downplays how much disobedient, refusal to follow the rules causes a lot of the homelessness problem and reducing the rules only makes things worst.

It's a real paradox that we're supposedly more conscious of mental health, and yet doing everything we can to make things worst.

I say this because star trek in particular is a show that has carefully crafted a fanbase that has a broad set of personalities.

The orderly people love that there's a rigid set of rules, uniforms, clean brightly colored bridges. The order also makes it more tolerable who aren't super open to new ideas. As they have a format they can rely on.

For people who are less empathetic the relatively small amount of emotional content make trek enjoyable/ Spock Data Worf were people they could latch onto.

Nutrek is insufferable for the majority of people with the temperaments listed above.

On the flip side, the level of exploration is severely limited by the format, the drama/action is just irrelevant to a lot of open minded people wanting to explore.

Not to mention how much agreeable people dislike all the pettiness/conflict etc.

Basically nu trek has found ways to piss off clusters of people, at every angle. And that's starting from being in the genre of science fiction, which itself is severely limited.

Of course if you try to point this out, people get so hostile. Especially the creative types who are running these shows. And like I said interests rates were low so they could get away with anything, as no one wants to get caught as buying into a purely incompetent form of content.
 
I don't think all people stopped watching Doctor Who just because Jodie became the Doctor. I stopped because I was looking for a way to stop during the Capaldi era and Jodie's first season was not written very well. It was no fault of her at all, but more on the writers.
You can't separate the two.

It's very obvious when someone is doing something not because they have a good idea behind it but because they an idea they're highly committed to.

If you're initial premise is that a thing is inherently flawed. It ain't a shock when your attempt to fix the thing that is not broken explodes in your face.

Could be wrong, but I imagine a large part of the female audiences sees the doctor as the idealized man, smart dynamic etc. Even women themselves were turned off when a major draw was taken away.

If you think something is inherently flawed you're usually the last person who should be given the reigns when the thing is working.

When you swap genders, it's always a good sign to the viewer that not only do you see the thing they like as flawed, but it also seems they think the audience themselves are flawed for not seeing the problem.

The alien franchise has been dominated by leading women, if you were to change that I'd check out permanently. It's a key part of the franchise not something you can change, unless you give a very good reason. And I'm the one who passionately loves all 6 alien films, when most hate more than 1.
 
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