What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[Sci]

l'm supposed to ignore what I have experienced and seen with my own eyes?!

When it involves ridiculously over-broad generalizations like "adults under the age of 30 are irresponsible?" Yes. That's a huge percentage of the national population.

I'm not telling you that your experiences are probably not true, so why would you be trying to tell me that my experiences are essentially wrong?

Because, 1) I am not making any claims about which age cohorts of adults are allegedly more X or more Y than others, and 2) your experiences by definition can only expose you to an infinitesimally small percentage of adults under the age of 30. That is not a large enough sample size to draw a meaningful conclusion.

That comes off as really arrogant and dismissive.

And claiming that adults under 30 are irresponsible doesn't?

Well, I would 'strongly encourage you' to 'really interrogate yourself' on why you seem to think everything has some kind of unconscious bias.

Because everyone does.

 

[Farscape One]

When it involves ridiculously over-broad generalizations like "adults under the age of 30 are irresponsible?" Yes. That's a huge percentage of the national population.



Because, 1) I am not making any claims about which age cohorts of adults are allegedly more X or more Y than others, and 2) your experiences by definition can only expose you to an infinitesimally small percentage of adults under the age of 30. That is not a large enough sample size to draw a meaningful conclusion.



And claiming that adults under 30 are irresponsible doesn't?



Because everyone does.

I am going by my own experiences, just as you go by yours. I am not the one dismissing what you say by saying it's likely a falsehood. YOU are the one doing that. THAT is arrogant and dismissive.

And no, not everyone has an unconscious bias on everything. That's creating an unnecessary division among people.

As I said before, we'll have to agree to disagree on the subject. Let's just drop it.

 

[Commander Troi]

I have an opinion that I think is so controversial that I need to clarify a few things:

1) I like DSC.

2) I accept that DSC takes place in the Prime timeline.

However, possibly within the next ten years I believe that DSC, SNW and any related projects will get officially/unofficially tucked away into some kind of separate 'Discoverse', and I think they will probably be all the better for it.

This belief is kind of strengthened by the road that PIC has just been down, where it's been on a mission to replicate the 90s Trek aesthetic (and in one case, the 1960s aesthetic) exactly.

What that says about Innovation vs Imitation, I don't know, but I think it's what will happen.

I disagree. From what we've seen up to this point, the folks running the IP want to fit it ALL in. Even the JJ movies can be argued to be connected, in a multiverse sort of way. Or are you talking about a multiverse?

Also, with the new SFA series spinning off of DSC, I think some writers are going to want to play in the 32nd century sandbox due to the lack of constraints. Meanwhile, SNW will fill some fans needs for a more "traditional" Trek show. I'm good with both myself.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Even the JJ movies can be argued to be connected, in a multiverse sort of way.

I don't think there's any argument. It's canon.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Yor

 

[Racefuel]

The Kelvin universe was referenced in Discovery Season 3 IIRC

 

[Sci]

I am going by my own experiences,

And you're using your experience with an infinitesimally small number of adults under 30 to rationalize a stereotype about that age cohort. Your experience does not justify prejudice.

YOU are the one doing that. THAT is arrogant and dismissive.

And calling adults under 30 irresponsible isn't?

And no, not everyone has an unconscious bias

Yes, they do. Evidence. In a deeply hierarchical society, nobody can avoid having unconscious biases.

 

[Farscape One]

And you're using your experience with an infinitesimally small number of adults under 30 to rationalize a stereotype about that age cohort. Your experience does not justify prejudice.



And calling adults under 30 irresponsible isn't?



Yes, they do. Evidence. In a deeply hierarchical society, nobody can avoid having unconscious biases.

I have asked nicely to simply agree to disagree and drop it... TWICE.

What part of that request is not clear to you? I'll try again, because maybe third time's the charm.

Let's agree to disagree and DROP THIS!

 

[Sci]

I have asked nicely to simply agree to disagree and drop it... TWICE.

What part of that request is not clear to you? I'll try again, because maybe third time's the charm.

Let's agree to disagree and DROP THIS!

You casually sling an extremely ageist stereotype against a huge segment of the population, you get called on your prejudice, and then you claim to be the victim?

Yeah, okay dude.

 

[Farscape One]

You casually sling an extremely ageist stereotype against a huge segment of the population, you get called on your prejudice, and then you claim to be the victim?

Yeah, okay dude.

Hold up just a damned minute.

Prejudice? Who the hell are you to be throwing around that accusation?

In nowhere in my posts did I say 'all' people under 30. I said "a lot of people, particularly under 30". This is what I have observed since working for 30 years. And I have worked with thousands of people, between the various stores and corporate level. So don't go telling me I don't have enough data during all those years... which, by the way, was also while I was in that age group.

Prejudice is a wrong word to be throwing around casually. Check yourself before being so casual about that.

 

[Sci]

Hold up just a damned minute.

Prejudice? Who the hell are you to be throwing around that accusation?

In nowhere in my posts did I say 'all' people under 30. I said "a lot of people, particularly under 30". This is what I have observed since working for 30 years. And I have worked with thousands of people, between the various stores and corporate level. So don't go telling me I don't have enough data during all those years... which, by the way, was also while I was in that age group.

Prejudice is a wrong word to be throwing around casually. Check yourself before being so casual about that.

You perpetuated an ageist stereotype that adults under 30 are irresponsible based upon your alleged personal experience, which is what people who perpetuate stereotypes always claim to justify their behavior. "Prejudice" is the correct word.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

The Kelvin universe was referenced in Discovery Season 3 IIRC

https://www.cbr.com/star-trek-discovery-kelvin-timeline-character/

 

[Farscape One]

You perpetuated an ageist stereotype that adults under 30 are irresponsible based upon your alleged personal experience, which is what people who perpetuate stereotypes always claim to justify their behavior. "Prejudice" is the correct word.

"Alleged"?

Dude, I have never once casted any doubt on what you said was factual. I respect that you had different experiences, and said as much and tried to call this off.

Who the fuck do you think you are calling someone else a liar?

 

[1001001]

That’s quite enough of that, both of you.

 

[Farscape One]

Going back to controversial STAR TREK opinions...

I don't think Jurati's fate was a good one. While it helped make a nice PICARD season 2 finale, I feel like it's a horrible fate she was consigned to. Being the Queen of that Borg sect might be the best outcome of that scenario, but losing yourself completely to a hive mind, or becoming that hive mind?

I don't think anyone deserves that.

 

[Commander Troi]

Going back to controversial STAR TREK opinions...

I don't think Jurati's fate was a good one. While it helped make a nice PICARD season 2 finale, I feel like it's a horrible fate she was consigned to. Being the Queen of that Borg sect might be the best outcome of that scenario, but losing yourself completely to a hive mind, or becoming that hive mind?

I don't think anyone deserves that.

But Jurati wanted that. She'd felt all alone her whole life.

 

[Farscape One]

But Jurati wanted that. She'd felt all alone her whole life.

True, and that need for belonging is powerful. But the Borg hive mind/Collective has always been shown as extremely alluring, like a narcotic. Narcotics are an artifical high, for lack of a better phrase. I don't think it gets more artificial than the Borg Collective.

I guess I just find it sad that she had to resort to being a Borg to feel like she belonged.

 

[Sci]

I think Jurati's arc points to something that rings true to me: There are a lot of people who would actively chose to share their minds in a collective consciousness if: 1) it was a choice rather than forced upon them and 2) doing so meant the joining of many minds as equals, not the loss of identity to a dominant mind. I don't think there's anything wrong with that so long as those two provisions are followed.

 

[Farscape One]

I think Jurati's arc points to something that rings true to me: There are a lot of people who would actively chose to share their minds in a collective consciousness if: 1) it was a choice rather than forced upon them and 2) doing so meant the joining of many minds as equals, not the loss of identity to a dominant mind. I don't think there's anything wrong with that so long as those two provisions are followed.

Considering how the Borg have always been portrayed, I don't think either point 1 or 2 would hold out for long.

Consider what the ex-Borg in "UNITY" did to Chakotay, not to mention forcing that Cooperative onto the entire planet's population.

Hive minds and losing your individuality are not what I'd call a good fate.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Considering how the Borg have always been portrayed, I don't think either point 1 or 2 would hold out for long.

Consider what the ex-Borg in "UNITY" did to Chakotay, not to mention forcing that Cooperative onto the entire planet's population.

Hive minds and losing your individuality are not what I'd call a good fate.

There's got to be a state that is a middle ground of individuality and pure Hive Mind.

One where everybody is connected, but not forced to share there most personal thoughts.

One where people can share knowledge willingly.

 

[Sci]

Considering how the Borg have always been portrayed, I don't think either point 1 or 2 would hold out for long.

Well, the Jurati Queen was still holding to it four hundred years later. She didn't try to assimilate a single Starfleet officer, she yielded control of the ships back to Starfleet after the immediate crisis was over, she took no aggressive action at least into PIC S3, and she honored her promise to guard the portal. So far, Jurati seems to be effective at changing this version of Borg away from conquest and mind control.

Consider what the ex-Borg in "UNITY" did to Chakotay, not to mention forcing that Cooperative onto the entire planet's population.

I mean, sure, but I don't see what an entirely different set of people's sins have to do with Jurati.

Hive minds and losing your individuality are not what I'd call a good fate.

It's not what I'd want either, but the world has always contained all sorts of personalities. There will always be some people who are highly individualistic and prefer isolation, and there will always be some people who are highly communalistic and prefer levels of connection others dislike.

I expect that in a Federation of 150 planets, there will probably be at least a few million who would be attracted to the idea of consensually joining minds as equals. They would probably be a minority, but when your overall population's numbers are so large, the absolute numbers on such a minority would still be fairly large, even if it's only a tiny percentage of the overall population.

Ultimately, whether the Jurati Borg would be able to attract converts would depend on whether or not they live up to their promises to only act with consent and to join members as equals rather than subsume members' identities. If they do, I don't see how the Jurati Borg are any different in principle than, say, a Vulcan mind meld -- during the meld, both partners merge identities to some extent, but they act with consent and neither partner dominates the other. If the Jurati Borg follow those rules, then it's basically just a scaled-up mind meld with a lot more members. I can see that attracting some people.