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What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

I'll tie it together:
Outland is set in the Trek universe a few decades before ENT. William O'Niel is actually Bond in undercover in one final role working for the very early days of Section 31 inside of UESPA, which is why it later on favored a lot of Brits.

there. controversial theory, done.
 
Oy. You take a few days off...

Katherine Pulaski was a far more interesting character than Beverly Crusher and, even though Gates is a beautiful woman and talented in her own right, Diana Muldaur gave a more nuanced performance that could have developed into something far more interesting.
I think Crusher was more nuanced. She was also usually boring. One of the great crimes of Star Trek. Pulaski was the one concession GR made to TOS type characters. And it was (IMVHO) ham handed.

Marina Sirtis looked like she'd rather be in war torn Ukraine than be playing Troi again. Resting...... face. And I loved her as Troi in the original series
The spoilers for this season of Picard seem to be flowing like Romulan Ale (illegal, but ubiquitous). She was perfectly in character. She was the shining star of PIC S1. She was pretty good here.

We're watching season 1 of TNG. Oh, Marina. I don't know if you would have been up for it back then, but you were not well served.

Where were we before Bond derailed our Trekfest?
Doctor Who.

This isn't controversial (I would think) but Ben Sisko may be the perfect balance between the Roddenberry Box and an Actual Person. Or human refuse. Potato, potatoe.

Ohhh, missed this one:
The only Bond actor who saw diminishing returns across his entire time in the role.
You take that back! PB was fighting so hard to play the kind of Bond that they then turned around and started making right after he was fired. Maybe not nearly as grim as Craig played him.

Anyone who can find the good in The Final Frontier can certainly see the great parts of Tomorrow Never Dies and The World is Not Enough. (Die Another Day was terrible.)

-----

Probably not controversial, but maybe so considering PIC 3 being lauded as "The Return of Real Star Trek" : It would be nice if Our Heroes could be written as people with Jobs. Even if Starfleet is not a military (ahem) it is widely accepted as an organization with a hierarchy and has traditionally been written as such.

It seems that much of current Star Trek is written that find such an arrangement alien if not objectionable. (Wait, let me see if I can generalize even MORE!) Certainly not anything that they have had any experience with. We miss you Ron Moore.

Strange New Worlds (I'm such a fanboy) seems to hit a good balance between "We're all buddies having a good time" and "Hey we are actually part of a thing that has rules and training." Disco has its ups and downs in this regard. Picard has never heard of such a thing. (Prodigy and Lower Decks not really being appropriate to the discussion.)
 
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Probably not controversial, but maybe so considering PIC 3 being lauded as "The Return of Real Star Trek" : It would be nice if Our Heroes could be written as people with Jobs. Even if Starfleet is not a military (ahem) it is widely accepted as an organization with a hierarchy and has traditionally been written as such.

It seems that much of current Star Trek is written that find such an arrangement alien if not objectionable. (Wait, let me see if I can generalize even MORE!) Certainly not anything that they have had any experience with. We miss you Ron Moore.

Strange New Worlds (I'm such a fanboy) seems to hit a good balance between "We're all buddies having a good time" and "Hey we are actually part of a thing that has rules and training." Disco has its ups and downs in this regard. Picard has never heard of such a thing. (Prodigy and Lower Decks not really being appropriate to the discussion.)

I bolded your Ron Moore statement because his contribution to the franchise was immense. And you bring up a point that I could never fully put into words quite well.

The current generation seems very dead set against any kind of hierarchical structure. While that is fine in some jobs and scenarios, it can't be applied to everything. 'A flat command structure', I think Jodie Whittaker's Doctor called it during her run. This kind of thinking does not work well within a ship's functional command structure. And while PICARD season 3 can get a pass on this because all of the characters are highly ranked and have decades of friendship to draw on, it's hard to justify DISCO allowing it when they seem to forget about hierarchy.

I think it boils down to the current generation having an inherent distaste for the military, so are writing Starfleet almost like they aren't one, at least in terms of a hierarchy and command structure.

In a sense, we are seeing one of the board's "Is Starfleet a military?" threads and discussions made manifest before our eyes.

(By the way, I completely agree about your assessment of SNW.)
 
And while PICARD season 3 can get a pass on this because all of the characters are highly ranked and have decades of friendship to draw on, it's hard to justify DISCO allowing it when they seem to forget about hierarchy.
I'm sure I felt that way about Disco from time to time to time. But then Picard said "Hold my Blood Wine."

re: Ron Moore. I mentioned him just because I recall more than one interview where he would mention story ideas that actually came from his experiences in... it was Navy ROTC wasn't it? And of course TOS was full to the gills (not the John Gills) with creatives who had actually been in some kind of command structure. Some of them more than one.

And even if I fancy myself the poster child for "Is Starfleet a military" I think SNW proves that you can make a show that still feels like it has structure and rank but DOESN'T feel like the Navy in Space.

(By the way, I completely agree about your assessment of SNW.)
That's just because I'm right. ;) (<--- PLEASE NOTE THE SELF-EFFACING WINKING EMOJI.)
 
I'm sure I felt that way about Disco from time to time to time. But then Picard said "Hold my Blood Wine."

re: Ron Moore. I mentioned him just because I recall more than one interview where he would mention story ideas that actually came from his experiences in... it was Navy ROTC wasn't it? And of course TOS was full to the gills (not the John Gills) with creatives who had actually been in some kind of command structure. Some of them more than one.

And even if I fancy myself the poster child for "Is Starfleet a military" I think SNW proves that you can make a show that still feels like it has structure and rank but DOESN'T feel like the Navy in Space.


That's just because I'm right. ;) (<--- PLEASE NOTE THE SELF-EFFACING WINKING EMOJI.)

Ron Moore was indeed in Navy ROTC. I also don't think it's a coincidence that the only two Berman era shows that had rank promotions were the two Ron Moore were producers of. (TNG and DS9... he was only with VGR a few weeks, and it's ludicrous that only Tuvok got a fully proper one.) Data was still shafted badly, though.
 
So you're saying Star Trek sometimes feels more like a workplace sitcom than a space navy/exploration corps drama?

I wonder what a Trek workplace sitcom would be like (Maybe the likes of Parks and Recreation?). I think Lower Decks is the closest we would have to that kind of thing, but I think i would watch a Parks and Rec style Star Trek series, maybe.
 
I wonder what a Trek workplace sitcom would be like (Maybe the likes of Parks and Recreation?). I think Lower Decks is the closest we would have to that kind of thing, but I think i would watch a Parks and Rec style Star Trek series, maybe.
Make Section 31 small enough to drown it in a bathtub.

No really, Ron Swanson on Star Trek? SIGN ME UP!
 
Strange New Worlds (I'm such a fanboy) seems to hit a good balance between "We're all buddies having a good time" and "Hey we are actually part of a thing that has rules and training." Disco has its ups and downs in this regard.

I think both Discovery and Strange New Worlds make the Starfleet hierarchy a part of the storytelling.

Picard has never heard of such a thing.

Well, up until Season Three, Star Trek: Picard was not about Starfleet! Seriously. Season One especially is about people who are not in Starfleet. Picard and Raffi are both civilian former Starfleet; Jurati is a civilian working for the Daystrum Institute; Rios is an independent contractor; Elnor is part of the Qowat Milat; Soji works for the Borg Reclamation Project; Seven is part of the Fenris Rangers; and Narek is part of the Zhat Vash. None of the principal characters are part of Starfleet, so why would Starfleet hierarchy and protocols be part of the story?

Also, finally getting a Star Trek series whose POV is not primarily that of Starfleet was really wonderful. It's a big galaxy and not everyone wants to be a space cop.

A related issue is at play in Season Two. Picard, Raffi, Elnor, and Rios have all joined Starfleet, but Jurati and Seven are not Starfleet officers, and neither is Tallinn. They do form a de facto Starfleet hierarchy, but it's perfectly reasonable that it would be less formal both because of the extraordinary circumstances the characters are in and a third of the people on the ground aren't Starfleet.

PIC Season Three brings back the Starfleet setting and the Starfleet hierarchy that comes with it.

(Prodigy and Lower Decks not really being appropriate to the discussion.)

I think Prodigy is another good example of an extremely loose hierarchy in place for emergencies but the group otherwise operating on the basis of an egalitarian democratic practice.

The current generation seems very dead set against any kind of hierarchical structure.

Because hierarchy is inherently a bad thing that should only be practiced insofar as it is absolutely necessary for groups to function and should otherwise be avoided.

While that is fine in some jobs and scenarios, it can't be applied to everything. 'A flat command structure', I think Jodie Whittaker's Doctor called it during her run. This kind of thinking does not work well within a ship's functional command structure.

I mean, a flat command structure can work on a small scale with people who trust each other. In combat situations or emergency situations, you want to have a pre-set hierarchy in place to make decisions when there's not time for egalitarian deliberation, but otherwise democracy is a good thing.

What a flat command structure is not adequate for is the marshaling of resources and personnel for state-level operations. So, no, you're not going to have a flat command structure when you're fighting a war with massive fleets. But there's no particular reason a small ship, such as the crew of La Sirena, couldn't function on the basis of egalitarian democracy.

And while PICARD season 3 can get a pass on this because all of the characters are highly ranked and have decades of friendship to draw on, it's hard to justify DISCO allowing it when they seem to forget about hierarchy.

Discovery never forgets about hierarchy. There is always a clear chain of command. They're just not as strict in enforcing hierarchical deference at all times -- which is a good thing, because that sort of thing is harmful and toxic.

I wonder what a Trek workplace sitcom would be like (Maybe the likes of Parks and Recreation?). I think Lower Decks is the closest we would have to that kind of thing, but I think i would watch a Parks and Rec style Star Trek series, maybe.

I really think that's basically what Lower Decks is.
 
I really think that's basically what Lower Decks is.

I did make that comparison, but the reason why I was curious was because Lower Decks has the whole memberbarries thing. What would an workplace sitcom Trek be like if it was it's own thing.
 
I did make that comparison, but the reason why I was curious was because Lower Decks has the whole memberbarries thing. What would an workplace sitcom Trek be like if it was it's own thing.

I don't think a Star Trek workplace sitcom could function without memberberries. Star Trek is too distinct a franchise for a hypothetical ST workplace sitcom not to use those.
 
Is there a difference between these callbacks being almost 4th wall breaking, vs simply being discussed as though they're real life things?
Talking about Wolf 359 when discussion has turned to the Borg? Sure. "Hey! I remember KIRK met someone named GARY SEVEN!" Look out, 4th wall!

My cousin describes it as "Characters who have watched Star Trek".

I won't go into specifics about Pic 3 until... (2, 5, carry the 3...) October.
 
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