Trekyards doing reactions to the exterior shots of the CGI -D and the rebuilt bridge set. Initial squee videos (which, is deserved. Fantastic shots and fantastic set) full videos to come.
(I think you meant parietal lobe)
I still don't get it, older humans also have parietal lobe, why can't the transport code alter it? The Borg altered Picards parietal lobe when we was Locutus and he was way past the age of 25 at the time.
Also was the transport code used many years ago to allow the parietal lobe to fully develop into this Borg brain structure?
Finally if the transporter code was used on all the youth of Starfleet, wouldn't doctors have noticed something strange was going on as they ALL would have developed structural defects in their parietal lobes?
The Battle of Procyon V never happens, but there is no indiciation the Enterprise-J doesn't happen. It's not known how fast the Delphic Expanse spread in that alternate timeline. This is a bit of a continuity hole because Maps produced and used during Enterprise show it was in the Heart of future 23rd and 24th century Federation Space, but it is possible it spread differently than just simply outward. Best not to think about it, because it makes no sense.It’s been a while since I’ve watched the Xindi-Arc, but isn’t the implication that by destroying the sphere network in the 22nd century, the events Archer sees aboard the Enterprise-J never happens?
How can there be a “Battle of Procyon V” where the properties of the Expanse have spread across the quadrant when it was stopped by the NX-01 in the past? By stopping it, wouldn’t the timeline with the Enterprise-J be severely altered?
He was right from Encounter at Farpoint. The Borg attack in 2366 and 2372, the destruction of the EnterpriseD, the destruction of the USS Odyssey and the Dominion War entirely validated how stupid families and children on Starships were. Starfleet was out of its mind thinking that just because the Klingons were friendly, the Romulans were isolationists and the Cardassians a minor nuisance, that the rest of the galaxy was going to be friendly. Given what we saw in the rest of TNG, DS9, Voyager and now Discovery S3 and S4, Q was absolutely right to give Picard and Starfleet a kick out of their complacency in System J-25. The Borg, in many respects, were the most simple "distant danger" Starfleet would come to encounter. If the Dominion encountered the Federation and the Federation never got its Borg-induced wake up call, the Dominion War would have lasted about 10 hours.What I like about the under 25 Borg take over is that it feels like vindication that Picard is the wisest captain in all of Starfleet history.
After all he has been complaining about children on the bridge 30+ years.
You’re right, that the J’s existence isn’t predicated on the Sphere Builder’s existence or the battle, but if we ever reach that letter in the alphabet, I can see the writers and producers using the timey-wimey-ness of the situation as causing ripples in the timeline that effectively shifted everything about the Enterprise-J if they wanted to go in a different direction.The Battle of Procyon V never happens, but there is no indiciation the Enterprise-J doesn't happen. It's not known how fast the Delphic Expanse spread in that alternate timeline. This is a bit of a continuity hole because Maps produced and used during Enterprise show it was in the Heart of future 23rd and 24th century Federation Space, but it is possible it spread differently than just simply outward. Best not to think about it, because it makes no sense.
Regardless, the ENterprise-J's existence wasnt predicated on the Delphic Expanse existing, so there is no reason to think it too didn't come to pass.
The reason the Borg DNA didn't activate on anyone over 25 is because their frontal cortex has already stopped developing.
Data: Judging by this simulation, the Borg genetic material doesn't propagate in a species past a point in the development cycle.
Beverly: Which for human beings is age 25, which is when the frontal cortex stops development.
Because the frontal cortex is no longer developing, it doesn't respond to the borg DNA.
I absolutely recommend indulging yourself and try writing fanfic. I was terrified of it myself (of whether I was any good, whether I'd be ridiculed, etc) before I posted my first work last year, but once I overcame my own fears, it's been freeing. I've never felt more creative and inspired, and it's made me a better writer in the process.Sometimes I really want to write that fanfic (and goodness knows if there was a slush pile at pocket, I would change my mind about trad publishing very fast) but it always feels… wrong. Like something I have been taught I shouldn’t do.
The closest I got was a couple of pastiches as assignments in uni.
Yeah getting in the weeds of the timey-wimeyness isn't gonna do anyone any good. I think if we ever made our way to the 26th century though, they'd just skip over the J and quick retire it, 1701-F style, since it really isn't "their" ship and more of a loaner, and feature an Enterprise-K.You’re right, that the J’s existence isn’t predicated on the Sphere Builder’s existence or the battle, but if we ever reach that letter in the alphabet, I can see the writers and producers using the timey-wimey-ness of the situation as causing ripples in the timeline that effectively shifted everything about the Enterprise-J if they wanted to go in a different direction.
Because Daniels implies that the “original” timeline was one where the Xindi attack never happened. So the “Prime” timeline is already an altered one.
I think it was also meant to be a quick (and hopefully amusing) way to remind viewers that Seven has no history with Data and no emotional connection to him, in contrast to the reunited TNG crew.
It could indicate a policy shift from the Federation.He was right from Encounter at Farpoint. The Borg attack in 2366 and 2372, the destruction of the EnterpriseD, the destruction of the USS Odyssey and the Dominion War entirely validated how stupid families and children on Starships were. Starfleet was out of its mind thinking that just because the Klingons were friendly, the Romulans were isolationists and the Cardassians a minor nuisance, that the rest of the galaxy was going to be friendly. Given what we saw in the rest of TNG, DS9, Voyager and now Discovery S3 and S4, Q was absolutely right to give Picard and Starfleet a kick out of their complacency in System J-25. The Borg, in many respects, were the most simple "distant danger" Starfleet would come to encounter. If the Dominion encountered the Federation and the Federation never got its Borg-induced wake up call, the Dominion War would have lasted about 10 hours.
Getting families off starships happened quickly in the early 2370s and it seems by 2401, Starfleet never looked back at that crazy, crazy policy.
It's also notable that Starships generally got smaller again, which may be a lesson from the Dominion War. The Odyssey Class is enormous,but so far we only know two were built (the Enterprise-F and one more seen during the fleet gathering). The next largest ships are the Ross-class (upgraded Galaxy class from Star Trek Online), and Sutherland (similar upgraded Nebulas from STO), and then the Sovereign class. There were a lot of Sovereigns, but only a few Rosses and Sutherlands. A fleet of ships generally between the size of an original Excelsior-class and a refit Constitution-class wouldn't have the ammenities to support families on board.
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I rate this episode a 7 for everything except the Borg and Changeling story, I give that part a 1.
Things I didn't like
- Borg are back, again and in a totally nonsensical way.
- This way of assimilation in the episode goes against the way assimilation has worked throughout the entire franchise. It even goes against WHAT a Borg is. A Borg is a cybernetic organism, a fusion of technology and biology. It's the technology like nano probes and implants that convert humanoids into Borg. According to this season Borg no longer need to assimilate, they can just transport you and BAM you have Borg DNA and transform into a Borg. This is totally rubbish.
- How the heck is Jack detecting and controlling changelings? From what i understood is they have the Borg DNA too. This is even more outlandish. No way a changeling can have DNA. This also goes against everything we know about changelings like Odo.
- They did a crap job of explaining why only the 'young' officers were able to be converted to Borg leaving the old officers immune. I didn't even bother rewatching it to find out because I didn't even care at this point. The writers totally ruined it for me.
They don't disappear, they just aren't expressed. Presumably, the genes code the formation of certain neural pathways in the prefrontal cortex that are capable of receiving Borg signals; if the cortex has already stopped forming, no new neural pathways would appear. Junk science perhaps, but I can understand what they were trying to do here.Genetic material propagates through male/female reproductive gametes (sperm and egg), and the genetics are fixed within it (unless subject to mutations or other alterations) Age has nothing to do with it. If the genes are added to the DNA, they should remain there, why would the genes suddenly disappear after age 25. This is the part in their explanation that bothers me.
Gee, makes you wonder why they put Seven in the show to begin with!
I wrote a BIG post about this up thread. Might be worth a read.It could indicate a policy shift from the Federation.
The only reason to build huge ships and put families aboard, like the Galaxy Class, would be if you’re sending ships out to the frontier for long exploratory voyages like the classic five-year missions.
But if the Federation’s policy has turned inward, where you’ve made Starfleet’s mission primarily defensive and are only poking around the edges of Federation space, then it makes sense to have smaller ships with limited crews that only go out for short periods of time to patrol.
Also, I believe there’s some contention about the Titan-A’s size based on the scaling in the scene where they open the bridge and blow Vadic into space. If you use the size of her body as a way to judge the scale of the ship, then I think it would be much smaller.
I wrote a megathread about this a long time ago but I agree with it.
Through production limitations (expense of new motion controlled models, expense of new CGI, use of AMT models to make kitbashes) the production of Trek in the 80s and 90s accidently created an incredibly logically design lineage flowing from the 2250s to (now) the 2400s. The below is all incidental from canon. It wasn't planned It just worked out that way.
In the late 2260s Starfleet developed the Constitution-refit design that took the modular components pioneered in the original Constitution and advanced them, and importantly allowed for modular configuration. This served Starfleet (and saved the Federation) for over a century. Because we got the Soyuz class, the Reliant class, the Miranda class, and countless variations of Connie-refit designs of midsized ships that were quick to make with enough volume to do all sorts of missions, from exploration to cargo to defense.
Fast forward to the 2280s, and they try to do it again with the Excelsior class design, first by pioneering a lot of new technologies, some of which succeed and form the foundation for really the next 80 years of Starfleet. Excelsiors start being built in the early 2390s and variants start showing up (such as the Excelsior-refit) in the the middle of the decade and the 2300s. If you look at Starfleet around 2320, it's largely Excelsior and excelsior-class variants and Connie-refit variant, specifically Miranda and Reliant style.
So what happens next? The Road to Ambassador class, which is in service by 2340, so let's say that's a 2330s program. After 30 years of success of the Excelsior and 40-ish of the Connie refit, they decide to take the next step in ship evolution. But the Ambassador class didn't live up to it's billing. It wasn't that much of an advance over the Excelsior class. Much of the tech was retrofitted into modernized Excelsiors and Mirandas, giving them decades more of life, but very few Ambassadors were built, and like one variant.
In the early 2340s Starfleet begins the long road to the Galaxy class. To not repeat the failure of the Ambassador class, which was an excelsior-style "top-down" system development, that road begins a bottom up approach. So they pioneer the technologies in smaller, simplier ships that prototype the systems that eventually are integrated in the Galaxy class (a recurring plot point that came up in TNG). The various 2340 and early 2350s ships you mentioned - New Orleans, Challenge, Cheyenne, Freedom - are all part of that effort. These classes were rare. They never had large production runs. Maybe only a few ships and kept to core systems duties (which is why they were so close to Wolf 359, they were essentially developmental prototypes). But they matured the technology that would be used in the late 2350s/early 2360s on the Galaxy class.
As a whole, the "road to the Galaxy class" worked as planned because when launched they were that quantum leap forward above the (upgraded) Excelsiors that was hoped for and that Ambassador failed to reach. And they were able to create a configuration variant in the Nebula class. But they were all very resource intensive and time intensive to build due to their size and state-of-the-art complexity. Even the Enterprise-D was essentially unfinished when it launched and spent much of the first 3-4 years receiving major upgrades.
Where the Galaxy class fit in Starfleet policy and the political situation of local space is interesting. With the Romulans isolationist since the 2310s, the Klingons friends and the biggest security crisis being the infrequent ow intensity border skirmishes with the Cardassians, to explore space beyond the reaches of these local powers, larger ships that had more amenities for larger voyages, and crucially, saw the introduction of families and civilians, was considered a sensible policy. Some older ships were modified to pioneer this purpose (like the Saratoga), but only the Galaxy and Nebula class were purpose built around the idea. One of the liming factors of this is that while ships got far faster between 2151 and 2284, since the development of the Excelsior class (especially improved versions in the 2310s), ships hadn't got much faster. Warp 9 gets you much further than Warp 7, but Warp 9 still means years-long voyages to unexplored space.
This entire way of thinking was obliterated by the rolling crises of the 2360s and 2370s which ended the "Long Peace" that began at Khitomer in 2293, perpetuated by Romulan isolationism, that made it possible. First was the end of Romulan isolationism in 2364, And then first contact with the Borg in 2365 and the Borg Invasion of 2366 (Wolf 359) ended it for good. The entire families-on-ships thing and with a small number of massive, hard to build ships was sidelined and Galaxy class construction ended.
What succeeded it would be know as the "Battle of Sector 001" era ships. The Akira, Sovereign, the Norway, the Steamrunner, the Saber, the Nova and of course, the Defiant. These grew out of of the post-Q Who plan to stand up a new Federation Battlefleet for the first time since the 2290s.They would be smaller, highly integrated, highly maneuverable, heavily armed ships and low profile ships. They could be built quicker than the galaxy class, but had a very defense-oriented design to fight the Borg. And they did that, successfully, in 2372 at the Battle of Sector 001 when 20-something ships did what the ships of 2366 could not do, and heavily damaged a Cube.
The Intrepid class fits in weirdly into this. It is not a 'Battle of Sector 001" design. It was supposed to be the cruiser design of the late 2360s/2370s that would replace the Excelsiors... a modernization of Galaxy technologies in a smaller, easier to build package. The Borg threat and later the Dominion first contact changed that plan and the ship (ironic given Voyager's survival) did not have the defense-first design of of the Battle of Sector 001 era ships. So production ended at three ships - Intrepid, Voyager and Bellpheron, and all had a very short service span (Voyager having the longest, at 7 years). Even during the Dominion War, the Bellpheron did mostly diplomatic duties and not combat or exploration. They represent, in a sense, the road not taken. The Intrepid class represents a dead end, in a sense.
One difference though compared to the ships of the 2290s era is Starfleet was doing highly integrated designs that had no room for modular componentization, even with the Intrepid class. There was no "underslung" variant of the Sovereign class (i.e. what the Nebula is to Galaxy or the Miranda to Constitution-refit). The closest version of that was Akira, which was very different. This made the ships complex to build in a different way. The designs were powerful and advanced, but highly specialized. This proved problematic during the Dominion War when the Federation needed to replace massive losses quickly. It needed, in Naval terms, "Combat mass" to hold back the huge number of Jem Hadar fighters and production capacities of Dominion shipyards.
Starfleet turned to producing modified Connie-Refit and Excelsior-class designs alongside a large number (but fewer) of the Battle of Sector 001 era designs. They did this because they could build components rapidly and combine them into ship types for specific purposes, and produce barebones versions of them that had little more than power systems, weapons, engines and crew quarters. They even applied this principle to the unused Galaxy and Nebula class space frames to get more combat mass out there (per DS9 producers) beyond the original 6 galaxy class ships..This worked for those two technology bases, but it wouldn't work for the Battle of Sector 001, which were so highly integrated they needed to be fully furnished, and as such were more work intensive to build (it still takes crews to build ships, even with replicators).
Starfleet lost an enormous number of ships in the Dominion War of all designs. But by the time it was over, it had pretty much burned through its capable production and modernized / reactivated Excelsior/Connie-refit variant legacy fleet. It would spend the next 20 years slowly building an entirely new fleet as the Galaxy class aged out, the Excelsior/Connies were not replaced by new Excelsior/Connies of the same build, and as the 2380s bore on, the Battle of Sector 001 era ships started to retire rather than face refurbishment in favor of more modernized designs. It tried integrated one more time with the Odyssey class (Enterprise-F) but seemingly only build a few of them, which, due to their size and complexity, we can surmise combined the issues of both the Galaxy-class design and the Battle of Sector 001 era.
Which brings us to 2401 and an entirely new design language for ships, that's actually an old one in a sense. Starfleet has turned its back on on highly integrated designs like Akira, Odyssey, Steamrunner, Sovereign or Defiant back to a Connie-refit / Excelsior style highly modular design. Common nacells, necks, pylons, saucers. Even aspects of the secondary hulls (which are the biggest point of difference). WIth a handful of common components, they've been able to make 6 different ship classes that serve different purposes. And they all use advanced technology in a form that isn't so big that its extremely time consuming to build, but not too small to be mission limited. It is almost as if they looked at the 2270s Constitution class and said "that, but modern". This advantage of this? It allowed the outward looking Starfleet to grow its fleet rapidly again post-2399 policy changes, and if it needed to build a large battlefleet, it could do it again, but this time not lean on 23rd century designs.
So that's how things have gone, organically, with some logical leaps and basing conclusions on producers statements. It's just really amazing how what Terry Matalas wanted for the look of ships in the 2401 era in Season 2 and Season 3 fit so perfectly with Starfleet learning a big ship building lesson from the Dominion War: "If we relied on just Galaxy class and its direct forebearers,we would have been boned. The 2370 era ships were powerful but hard to build and mission limited comparatively. Our collective asses were saved by how ships were thought to built 90 years ago... modularly. We'd be dead if it wasn't for the Mirandas and Excelsiors. So let's do that, but modern." And that's how we got the retro-modern 2401 look, and also explains why there is a clean break from and between the Galaxy class, the Intrepid class and the later Battle of Sector 001 designs.
This show has gotten changelings egregiously wrong from the jump.
I think it'll be explained next episode, but taking what we know from Matalas' interviews since the episode aired and twitter posts... (spoilers),I'm confused as to why the Borg needed the Changelings at all to bring down Starfleet. Seems to be an incredibly convoluted way to assimilate the Federation/Earth. The only plausible reason is that the Borg are still decimated by what happened in Voyager's Endgame, and that they no longer believe they can defeat Starfleet militarily considering Voyager's Borg-destroying arsenal. Whether they tie this in the finale however is another matter..
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