For one thing, the fact that they were wronged does not in turn mean they themselves have not also committed wrongs. At any rate, I actually don't think SNW can do much more with the Gorn unless they're prepared to fully trample on the idea that the Gorn were a mystery to Kirk and the average Federation crew a few years later. I don't think the point of seeing the Gorn in the first season was that the Gorn will be an overarching series adversary so much as they were a way to drive forward the personal arcs of several of our main characters.
The Gorn…
- Thread starter Warped9
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That would be a very enlightened approach, yes. But how strongly can we judge someone for not doing that in the heat of the moment? Do you know, for certain, how calmly you would react if you walked into your living room and you saw someone you'd never seen before moving in his own furniture and setting up like it was his house? What if he was not just a stranger, but a space alien?
How can we know that? How can we be certain that the Gorn did not announce themselves and their claim? How can we be certain that the colonists did not simply tell them to go screw? If we can't assume that the Gorn captain was telling the truth, how can we assume that a bunch of dead Federation colonists, none of whom we ever hear from in the episode, conducted themselves appropriately in response to being contacted by the Gorn? We've seen how Federation colonists can behave in response to the completely and 100% legitimate territorial claims of a foreign power in "The Ensigns of Command": like bullheaded, entitled assholes who don't care about the rule of law and won't even entertain the notion of compromise. A few years later, we saw the same behavior from the Maquis: an absolute refusal to contemplate the possibility that someone else might have a claim to the same ground, even when the other claimant had more than enough firepower to enforce their claim if pushed to do so. Given what we know from these examples, it sure seems likely that if the Gorn had attempted a peaceful resolution, the colonists would have rejected their overtures.
I don't see how that's proof at all. We've seen our protagonists develop incredibly complex schemes in a relatively short amount of time in every single Star Trek series, and even shorter amounts of time in the movies. We couldn't the Gorn have developed their plan on the spot, after long-range scans (or some information discovered at the colony site) revealed the proximity of the Enterprise?
The safest assumption would be that the answer is both.
Hardly. One needs only look at the very contemporary aesthetic used in TOS-R to see it was all about retconning a contemporary look into TOS to make it look more in line with later productions. There is zero chance TOS would have designed things in the way they did in TOS-R simply because the creative perspective and resources available were rather different back in the day.
I think they already have trampled the idea the Gorn were a mystery to Kirk
You don't know that.
It’s bloody simple really. ENT, DSC and now SNW are simply rebooting the continuity for their own ends. It has zilch to do with TOS. You cannot change as much as they do in so many respects and expect anyone with eyes to accept it as “this is the way it’s alway been.”
Pity they don’t have the balls to be honest and admit, “It’s a full-on reboot, folks. What came before doesn’t matter.” Because thats exactly how they’re producing it.
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It could always just be a dramatic recreation from different points of view. TOS one way, SNW another way, etc.
I never found the need to say "it's a reboot" when GR even distance from TOS in some ways when TMP was produced. If people want to call it a reboot, fine, but I see no obligation to call it that.
I never found the need to say "it's a reboot" when GR even distance from TOS in some ways when TMP was produced. If people want to call it a reboot, fine, but I see no obligation to call it that.
Not really. As it stands now, they're a race that very few people have seen and lived to tell the tale, virtually nothing is known about them beyond the ravings of a traumatized person who survived them as a child, and there have only been a handful of encounters with them.
I don't, but it's more likely than not.
"Their own ends" being...what? Telling a fun story? How many times did TOS alter its own continuity for the same reason, or for no reason at all? Tell you what, let's ask James R. Kirk. You know, the captain of the United Earth vessel Enterprise? The one that's 900 years in the future, according to "The Squire of Gothos"? It was launched under the auspices of the United Earth Space Probe Agency, I believe, and it had a Vulcanian science officer named Spock who laughed out loud when he saw weird flowers. That's totally different, by the way, from the "space vehicle Enterprise," the one that Captain Pike commanded.
Exactly. The only real Star Trek is "The Cage." Everything is a bullshit cash-in that betrays Gene's vision.
There's a world of difference between a changed premise and a reboot. Your examples are confusing the two concepts.
I think it’s arguably possible in the TOS-verse where it seems like everything is a bit further apart and sparsely populated than it is in the spin-off series.
Instead of thinking of the galactic powers as Europe, where every power has distinct land-locked territory and borders, I believe it’s probably better to imagine it more as a vast archipelago, with major powers claiming their islands, but with unaffiliated islands scattered amongst them and “international waters” separating most islands.
Another possibility is that Cestus is not frequently surveyed by the Gorn. In TOS, a planet like Delta Vega only sees a ship once every 20 years. Imagine the Gorn only sends a ship to check Cestus once a year. Plenty of time for a human outpost to be setup between Gorn checkups.
Indeed. Gene's vision would never have those garish colored uniforms. Ridiculous!
Though, true confession, I always liked Pike over Kirk since watching the Cage.
It seemed like the Gorn and Talarians were somewhat similar cases. Both accused the UFP of invasion, initiated hostilities, and eventually came to some sort of peace. Difference was that there was an actual war with Talarians. It stands to reason something similar happened with the Sheliak and Tzenkethi.
As for the SNW inconsistencies, I mean I realize that telling a good story always takes precedence.. but man, that was a rough one. I was thinking that, while it's probably safe to say the "space legends" line was intended to be about Metrons, maybe it could be reinterpreted to be the Gorn?
As for the SNW inconsistencies, I mean I realize that telling a good story always takes precedence.. but man, that was a rough one. I was thinking that, while it's probably safe to say the "space legends" line was intended to be about Metrons, maybe it could be reinterpreted to be the Gorn?
Not a bad thought, honestly, it probably wouldn't even be the most egregious reinterpretation of a line in Star Trek.
I always took the point as being they didn't know anything about the region of space or possible inhabitants. Metrons and Gorn both, and what information Kirk might have had about the Gorn would be limited. Even with SNW it doesn't make it impossible for Kirk to have limited knowledge. It's not like he is sitting there watching Star Trek episodes and taking notes.
After that interaction the Enterprise crew had with the Gorn? And Kirk takes command of that very same ship and is ignorant of that crew's previous encounter with the Gorn? Not buying it.
Kirk was gone before they were identified.
Not much they can do then. Except have a really annoying "as you know" scene.
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