Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x03 - "Seventeen Seconds"

[Vger23]

Very late to the party, but this one was the best of the 3 episodes this season so far. Good character moments, great space battle stuff (I love how the Shreik uses that wormhole weapon in battle), and the villain wasn't nearly as over-the-top annoying as she was last week. Jack Crusher was also less tropy and annoying. Worf is awesome.

I really hope Shaw hasn't been written out. That would piss me off.

"The Next Generation" 7/10
"Disengage" 7/10
"Seventeen Seconds" 8.5/10

 

[fireproof78]

I don't know. I'd say Hawkeye, Trapper, and Blake were all good people. I'd be hard pressed to say how they weren't. But they weren't perfect.

Alcoholics, womanizers, and criminals at times. Self serving and creepy. Not always, but saying they were "good people" misses the mark a bit for me.

I would definitely consider Hawkeye to be aspirational. He's a pacifist in an impossible situation. But he persists in his own fight against it. He always finds a way to insert his pacifism, such as treating enemy combatants as equal to our own. And various other things like that. Hawkeye fretted over his role of "weapons repair" being a surgeon and the impossible situation of needing to heal people who would then go on to kill and be killed. Radar once warned that Hawkeye would break down eventually due to fighting the war in his own ways, and he did. I find that aspirational at least.

I mean, yes and no. He has ideals, but those ideals often come at the cost of others, such as unethical surgery to stop an officer with a poor service record, or other fraudulent behavior. I'm not saying he doesn't have positives. Just that aspirational for me to "look up to" is not what I see.

When my wife told me that, I'm like, "Whelp I could've told you that would happen with you all talking about emotions and stuff!"

Yup. Part of my training was to go through a group process that had arguing, conflict and disagreement. And we did. And it was a big conflict and still managed through it. I don't usually like conflict, and still have a minor avoidance in real life but in drama? Bring it on!

I guess I'm just someone who doesn't mind emotions, regardless of the level. It can be taxing, yes, but to me it's just human.

I'm definitely looking forward to the rest of the season!

Well to try and bring it back on topic I will say I am glad you are and hope others are enjoying it too!

 

[Farscape One]

Curious. Why not?

I can sympathize a bit, despite being trained in psychology, mental health counseling, and the like, as I do not enjoy people trying to analyze me. But, the flip side is that if I don't try to get in to someone else's head on some loevel then my perspective remains quite limited.

Psychoanalyzing and getting into people's heads feels more like a method of trying to manipulate and control people than actually trying to help.

Put simply, I just don't trust shrinks. Overall, they just sit there and collect a check. They'll say things like, "We're making some progress, but you need to come back more to get farther." And keep moving that goalpost while they bleed people's wallets dry. Little better than snake oil salesman. Far more useless than doctors, because at least in medicine you can actually see results, good or bad, from treatments, etc. With psychology, there's no real way to measure progress... it's too subjective.

And at the end of the day, if someone doesn't want to change, no amount of therapy will work.

I get that some do care and actually help some people, but far more often than not, they are just wallet leeches. I trust them even less than doctors.

 

[fireproof78]

Psychoanalyzing and getting into people's heads feels more like a method of trying to manipulate and control people than actually trying to help.

Put simply, I just don't trust shrinks. Overall, they just sit there and collect a check. They'll say things like, "We're making some progress, but you need to come back more to get farther." And keep moving that goalpost while they bleed people's wallets dry. Little better than snake oil salesman. Far more useless than doctors, because at least in medicine you can actually see results, good or bad, from treatments, etc. With psychology, there's no real way to measure progress... it's too subjective.

And at the end of the day, if someone doesn't want to change, no amount of therapy will work.

I get that some do care and actually help some people, but far more often than not, they are just wallet leeches. I trust them even less than doctors.

That's sad that that's been your experience. I won't argue your experience but simply say I hope you someday have a more positive one with someone who pursues your good.

 

[Farscape One]

That's sad that that's been your experience. I won't argue your experience but simply say I hope you someday have a more positive one with someone who pursues your good.

I appreciate the sentiment, but that's been my view for decades now, and it's very likely not to change. I've experienced enough and seen enough to not have my opinion swayed.

I find you get better results with your issues by having a good friend or spouse to bounce things off of... someone who actually has a real investment in helping you outside of a paycheck.

You seem to actually give a damn about people while working in that field, and I tip my hat to you because that's remarkably rare in my experience. Just keep in mind my views are not about you personally, just a generalization.

 

[fireproof78]

I appreciate the sentiment, but that's been my view for decades now, and it's very likely not to change. I've experienced enough and seen enough to not have my opinion swayed.

I find you get better results with your issues by having a good friend or spouse to bounce things off of... someone who actually has a real investment in helping you outside of a paycheck.

You seem to actually give a damn about people while working in that field, and I tip my hat to you because that's remarkably rare in my experience. Just keep in mind my views are not about you personally, just a generalization.

I had to manage my reaction as that is a source of anger for me, but yeah I recognized that's your personal experience, and unfortunately the Code of Ethics is not followed by my profession as well as it could be.

For my part, I find that I do not do well with a personal friend. It's too personal and intrusive. My spouse can and does, provide that sounding board, but I'm not one to open up to friends. Too much poor experience with friends in the past who don't quite appreciate the way I see things.

I'll just say that I have watched the counseling profession change remarkably in the past decade since I started studying it so I am hopeful that trend will continue. Until then, well, I'll just manage my own little part of it.

 

[Farscape One]

I had to manage my reaction as that is a source of anger for me, but yeah I recognized that's your personal experience, and unfortunately the Code of Ethics is not followed by my profession as well as it could be.

For my part, I find that I do not do well with a personal friend. It's too personal and intrusive. My spouse can and does, provide that sounding board, but I'm not one to open up to friends. Too much poor experience with friends in the past who don't quite appreciate the way I see things.

I'll just say that I have watched the counseling profession change remarkably in the past decade since I started studying it so I am hopeful that trend will continue. Until then, well, I'll just manage my own little part of it.

I guess it depends on the friend. I don't have many, but the ones I do have are really, really good people. I suppose I've been lucky in how I found them and how to spot them.

I suppose that makes me a bit Klingon in that regard. (At least, how Picard explains it to Riker in "Ethics"... "Klingons choose their friends with great care.")

 

[Captain B.84]

Who saw that coming? lol

 

[fireproof78]

I guess it depends on the friend. I don't have many, but the ones I do have are really, really good people. I suppose I've been lucky in how I found them and how to spot them.

I suppose that makes me a bit Klingon in that regard. (At least, how Picard explains it to Riker in "Ethics"... "Klingons choose their friends with great care.")

Oh, I have great friends, some I've known for nearly 30 years. I just don't open up to them as much because my problems are rarely the same as theirs. So, I find a stranger a bit easier to open up too because I don't see any judgement.

 

[Commander Troi]

Psychoanalyzing and getting into people's heads feels more like a method of trying to manipulate and control people than actually trying to help.

Put simply, I just don't trust shrinks. Overall, they just sit there and collect a check. They'll say things like, "We're making some progress, but you need to come back more to get farther." And keep moving that goalpost while they bleed people's wallets dry. Little better than snake oil salesman. Far more useless than doctors, because at least in medicine you can actually see results, good or bad, from treatments, etc. With psychology, there's no real way to measure progress... it's too subjective.

And at the end of the day, if someone doesn't want to change, no amount of therapy will work.

I get that some do care and actually help some people, but far more often than not, they are just wallet leeches. I trust them even less than doctors.

I'm sorry that's been your experience too. Without my therapist and psychiatrist, I honestly don't know if I'd be here today. I have good, close friends and a wonderful spouse to talk to, but having someone who is objective and can give me tools to work with has made a real difference.

 

[Danja]

I always find the modern discourse around Friends, particularly Ross, ignores the fact that these people are *extremely* damaged, and that is where we get half the comedy from because that is the kind of story it *is*. (With of course, the obligatory romance and drama elements, as was the style at the time)
Modern audiences are for some reason oblivious to that, preferring surface reading.

The same can be said for Frasier (Hello, Capt. Bateson!) and Seinfeld.

 

[Noname Given]

...Riker takes the most illegal option possible for help...

Actually, he didn't. That would have been doing like what James T. Kirk did in Star Trek III: TSFS. IE - Get their own loyal crew, and steal a Starship out of Spacedock.

They were debating what to do when Seven called them into the briefing room, asked Picard what they were really doing there; and then inform them that she had taken the ship to where they wanted.

At worst Riker and Picard stole a shuttlecraft. And it also it was 7of9 who blatantly disobeyed her Captain's orders and changed course.

 

[Mr Awe]

And at the end of the day, if someone doesn't want to change, no amount of therapy will work.

I will say that the best therapists help their clients find their own solutions. No manipulation but just helping them assess their situation and find a solution that works for them.

That might not be your experience but I believe (through my wife) that's the norm.

 

[Tuskin38]

I really hope Shaw hasn't been written out.

He hasn't.

 

[Danja]

He hasn't.

Not yet ...

 

[Mr Awe]

Alcoholics, womanizers, and criminals at times. Self serving and creepy. Not always, but saying they were "good people" misses the mark a bit for me.

I mean, yes and no. He has ideals, but those ideals often come at the cost of others, such as unethical surgery to stop an officer with a poor service record, or other fraudulent behavior. I'm not saying he doesn't have positives. Just that aspirational for me to "look up to" is not what I see.

Well, some of that was a response to the impossible situation. I guess I'd say that they weren't bad people whether or not you'd call them good is a different matter. I'll agree that some of early episodes had creepy aspects. Different showrunners with different goals. If the show hadn't evolved, it wouldn't have lasted as long as it did.

Regarding "criminals," sometimes good people need to break bad laws. That's part of the conflict. And the conflict between Hawkeye and BJ in the episode you refer to about the unnecessary surgery was excellent.

I find Hawkeye's persistent personal fight against the war to be inspirational. But, well we've got different opinions--no surprise!

Yup. Part of my training was to go through a group process that had arguing, conflict and disagreement. And we did. And it was a big conflict and still managed through it. I don't usually like conflict, and still have a minor avoidance in real life but in drama? Bring it on!

I guess I'm just someone who doesn't mind emotions, regardless of the level. It can be taxing, yes, but to me it's just human.

Definitely, and it's crucial part of the training. And a great treatment option for some people. My wife knows me and my humor, so she took it as the joke it was intended to be.

Emotions are fine and good. I just don't want to be mired in them, particularly the negative ones. Some is fine. But melodrama isn't for me.

Well to try and bring it back on topic I will say I am glad you are and hope others are enjoying it too!

Best season of Picard yet!

 

[Lord Garth]

Shaw's got death written all over him. It's just a question of how and when. Him being in sickbay right now is a fake-out. He'll get better, they'll make us start to like him more, then Vadic shows up. She has to kill someone. It's just a done deal.

I love it. It's gonna be great.

 

[Mr Awe]

Shaw's got death written all over him. It's just a question of how and when. Him being in sickbay right now is a fake-out. He'll get bette, they'll make us start to like him more, then Vadic shows up. She has to kill someone. It's just a done deal.

I love it. It's gonna be great.

I'll be honest. I'm not sure about that. It's also possible that he's going to be the surprise who saves the day. These events are possibly a great learning experience for him. Risk is their business! And sometimes you need to take risks for the larger good.

If Shaw can see that the current events are of larger importance, he might see that some risk is required.

Of course, he might pay for that risk with his life. But I'm not sure about that aspect. He might survive and become a leader of the next, next generation! We'll see.

 

[Lord Garth]

I'll be honest. I'm not sure about that. It's also possible that he's going to be the surprise who saves the day. These events are possibly a great learning experience for him. Risk is their business! And sometimes you need to take risks for the larger good.

If Shaw can see that the current events are of larger importance, he might see that some risk is required.

Of course, he might pay for that risk with his life. But I'm not sure about that aspect. He might survive and become a leader of the next, next generation! We'll see.

Don't know if you could tell from the over-the-top tone of my post, but I was joking around. Maybe.

 

[fireproof78]

Do not ask for whom the bell tolls.