Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x03 - "Seventeen Seconds"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
The Picard Maneuver at The Battle of Maxia? Separating the Enterprise's saucer section at warp (something that had never been done before)? Having cloaked Klingon ships secretly accompany the Enterprise during a showdown with he Romulans? Given how many interdictions and skirmishes the Enterprise was engaged in, a good tactician can also be someone who defuses hostile situations quickly and prevents them from escalating out of control.
But sometimes you have to fight. Like in this episode. And look at the results.
The Picard Maneuver at The Battle of Maxia? Separating the Enterprise's saucer section at warp (something that had never been done before)? Having cloaked Klingon ships secretly accompany the Enterprise during a showdown with he Romulans? Given how many interdictions and skirmishes the Enterprise was engaged in, a good tactician can also be someone who defuses hostile situations quickly and prevents them from escalating out of control.
Okay, I'm biased. I loved the episode, and at least both of my cosplay pics were in focus in the 10 Forward Avenue bar in this episode! Thrilled that Therin of Andor and Grol of Tellar are both now canon! (They were blurry in the moving footage last season.)
"Seventeen Seconds"... of fame? by Ian McLean, on Flickr
Actually, I was so distracted by the great story that I forgot to look carefully at the wall behind Riker as the episode played out, and I had to go back hunting.
Therin and Grol in "Picard", Season 2 by Ian McLean, on Flickr
"Seventeen Seconds"... of fame? by Ian McLean, on Flickr
Actually, I was so distracted by the great story that I forgot to look carefully at the wall behind Riker as the episode played out, and I had to go back hunting.
Therin and Grol in "Picard", Season 2 by Ian McLean, on Flickr
Don't you believe for even a moment that Picard is finished dealing with the Shrike.
I think we see more stuff explode against the shields these days, but actual damage to a ship's hull is minor in comparison. More damage seem to be to various ship systems. But it also depends on how strong or weak the shields are against a powerful weapon.
That's because they focus the power to the forward shield. With this configuration, the rear shield will be lowered than normal. And that's also the reason why Picard suggest to attack the enemy ship from behind.
I think Picard's tactic is actually really good. It is the most logical way to cripple the Shrike. Even Kirk used his plan to beat Miranda in WOK. But Riker wasted too much time to run away, until the Changeling sabotage their warp drive, and force him to face the enemy head to head. the explosion, and the lost time that they used to run make the Shrike realized that the Titan is baiting them with a false trail. So with her experience as a bounty hunter, Vadec quickly can understand that the enemy aim her back. so, using the opportunity that the Titan waste their time to run away, she plan a trap to target the Titan rear. And Riker eat that bait whole fully.
If you look closely, you can see the flash of the shields when the Shrike's weapons hit the Titan. The shields are just skin tight now, instead of the bubble. The shields are mitigating damage. It would be much worse without the shields. With the shields, there is concussion damage that causes fires and systems to overload but the structure of the ship is still intact. Without shields, half the saucer would the torn right off and floating into space.
It does feel like there's something different about Will and Jean-Lucs relationship in this episode. Picard badgering Will at every turn doesn't feel natural and his reaction to it feels a bit off too. I've no doubt they'll delve into this a little bit more but it just, from the outside, seems like there isn't any trust in the other here.
I just realized something. The Titan firing “everything” they’ve got which equates to just four torpedoes seems awfully similar to the Enterprise-D just firing a few phaser rounds half-heartedly against the Duras sisters in Generations.
And Riker was in command both times.
With the 4 torpedoes that must be everything they can fire as a spread before the tubes need reloading - Trek torpedoes have never been like an automatic rifle or machine gun where they stream continuously but more of a "burst" or semi approach which makes sense to me
With phasers - I agree Pubert but easy enough to believe that the damage done so far limited their ability to fire them (being energy weapons) but with torpedoes being "physical" and so needing less energy to launch they could still use those.
Picard is emotionally compromised. Riker understand that problem, because he had the same experience as Picard with his late son. Basically, Picard can't judge the situation correctly after he saw Jack injured and almost died in the sick bay. His brain is clouded with hatred, so he wants to destroy Shrike for revenge.
The Portal weapon is pretty interesting isn't it? I wonder if the Shrike has enough control over it they could turn it off when a ship if halfway through it, or whether it doesn't work like that. As we established, Vadic wasn't really trying to destroy the Titan so wouldn't use it in this way to cut her in half, even if it could be used that way.
Also did anyone else notice there is a delay between entering the first portal and exiting the second portal? I noticed the same thing when it was used to destroy the Federation building on M'Talas. I wonder where you are during that time - outside the spacetime continuum? Perhaps you don't experience the missing time as someone transiting the portal.
Also did anyone else notice there is a delay between entering the first portal and exiting the second portal? I noticed the same thing when it was used to destroy the Federation building on M'Talas. I wonder where you are during that time - outside the spacetime continuum? Perhaps you don't experience the missing time as someone transiting the portal.
When Beverly tried to weasel out of responsibility by telling Picard, "Well, I told Jack about you, but he didn't want to meet you," I expected Picard to scoff and reply, "Oh, do you think keeping me out of his life the first twenty years MIGHT HAVE HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH THAT?!?!"
Picard should really have said something about her first son growing up without a father and asked why she didn't learn from that experience. Wesley felt a gaping dad-shaped hole in his life, which Beverly knew about, then she purposefully did the same thing to another little boy. All because she was scared Picard might get whacked. But did she seek out another cozy little Scottish colony to raise him in? No, she had the kid following her into disease-ridden war zones. Totally makes sense.
I hope Wesley shows up and reads her the riot act, followed by her apologizing profusely to Picard and Jack.
Picard should really have said something about her first son growing up without a father and asked why she didn't learn from that experience. Wesley felt a gaping dad-shaped hole in his life, which Beverly knew about, then she purposefully did the same thing to another little boy. All because she was scared Picard might get whacked. But did she seek out another cozy little Scottish colony to raise him in? No, she had the kid following her into disease-ridden war zones. Totally makes sense.
I hope Wesley shows up and reads her the riot act, followed by her apologizing profusely to Picard and Jack.
Last edited:
It's another James Horner reference!
So the former head of Starfleet Medical in the late 24th century accidentally gets pregnant and then is never heard from again? To the point where there is not even a RUMOR that she has had a child?
This took a bit of not looking too carefully when we did this with Kirk and Marcus. (Because KIRK, amirite? ::eyeroll:
Shaw still seems, with momentary exceptions ("Why do they keep finding us?" was a flash of "I don't hate you"), to be a terrible captain in both matters of style and of substance. But really "Because he's my son!" should have gotten the response of "Seriously, confine this man to quarters. I want a report every ten minutes that he's where he's supposed to be. Let's all concentrate on not dying." The needs of the many outweigh --- YOUR SON?!? SHIELDS UP! DAMN THE TORPEDOES!
Right now Worf is the only thing keeping me watching. None of these people are acting like people, let alone Starfleet officers, let alone Star Trek: The Next Generation characters.
I was so delighted to hear Worf finally put the parents that raised him into his litany of heritage.
I realize that DS9 is far from universally known and that the audience needs to be caught up a bit. But in universe the Dominion and the Changelings should be a bit like having to have the Nazis explained to you, isn't it?
All of the jeopardy and conflict only exists because it's a TV show. The only thing kind of clever was turning the Titan's torpedoes back at them.
I had heard such glowing things about this show from Star Trek fans who HAAAAATED the first two seasons. I'm wondering about their mental health. I suppose it's well enough for beer and popcorn once a week. But it's not measurably better than season 2.
It was nice to see Deanna.
Worf's speech "...Slayer of Gowron. I have made chamomile tea." reminds me of DS9: "I am a Klingon warrior and a Starfleet officer. I have piloted starships through Dominion minefields. I have stood in battle against Kelvans twice my size. I courted and won the heart of the magnificent Jadzia Dax. If I can do these things, I can make this child go to sleep." 
IIRC, they had bubbles in FC, tighter sub-bubbles in INS, skin-tight ones in NEM, grid ones in PRO, bubbles again in PIC S2, and now skin-tight ones again
It's another James Horner reference!
So the former head of Starfleet Medical in the late 24th century accidentally gets pregnant and then is never heard from again? To the point where there is not even a RUMOR that she has had a child?
This took a bit of not looking too carefully when we did this with Kirk and Marcus. (Because KIRK, amirite? ::eyeroll:
Shaw still seems, with momentary exceptions ("Why do they keep finding us?" was a flash of "I don't hate you"), to be a terrible captain in both matters of style and of substance. But really "Because he's my son!" should have gotten the response of "Seriously, confine this man to quarters. I want a report every ten minutes that he's where he's supposed to be. Let's all concentrate on not dying." The needs of the many outweigh --- YOUR SON?!? SHIELDS UP! DAMN THE TORPEDOES!
Right now Worf is the only thing keeping me watching. None of these people are acting like people, let alone Starfleet officers, let alone Star Trek: The Next Generation characters.
I was so delighted to hear Worf finally put the parents that raised him into his litany of heritage.
I realize that DS9 is far from universally known and that the audience needs to be caught up a bit. But in universe the Dominion and the Changelings should be a bit like having to have the Nazis explained to you, isn't it?
All of the jeopardy and conflict only exists because it's a TV show. The only thing kind of clever was turning the Titan's torpedoes back at them.
I had heard such glowing things about this show from Star Trek fans who HAAAAATED the first two seasons. I'm wondering about their mental health. I suppose it's well enough for beer and popcorn once a week. But it's not measurably better than season 2.
It was nice to see Deanna.
Actually the way Shaw responds to Picard saying ‘he’s my son’ is an incredibly efficient way to illustrate and grow Shaws character. The way he just transfers command to Riker is less so, a bit handwavey, but also illustrates how he makes choices — and combined with him talking to Jack, still focused on the problem, does more with basically three lines and less than one minute screen time total, than is sometimes done with whole episodes.
Another example of this is Syd referring to ‘Commander Seven’. Admittedly, we also seem to forget that Geordi himself was both a pilot and a Starfleet Royalty child himself. But mayb that just illustrates Syd being young and a little self-absorbed, or that Geordi didn’t learn from his own upbringing. Which is at least thematic. Lot of Apples under the Tree.
Titus Rikka is a bad name though… no reason to have a characters name be so similar to another’s.
Hmmm, not a bad episode, a little better than last week so as I can't give a 7.5 I'll go for a 7. However, here are some things that bugged me:
Overall though it was enjoyable enough to keep me watching.
- Some dodgy and out of character dialog in places, particularly the exchanges between Riker and Picard - that final exchange in particular was pretty terrible
- Oh look, they said "shit!" a few times. Still trying too hard to bring in more conventional dialog
- Pacing was a bit hit and miss
- Worf was fun
- Jack Crusher was a little more bearable, as was Raffi (thanks to Worf)
- A Changeling? Oh boy, I hope they don't fall into the usual trap of "the saboteur could be anybody!". That can get old real fast
- Still trying way too hard to emulate some moments of classic Trek
- At least Vadic wasn't cackling away this week but she really ought to give up smoking, doesn't she know it's bad for her health?
- A Portal weapon? Somebody has been playing a certain classic video game series
- The anti-aging CGI for the flashback sequence wasn't that good, especially on Picard
- Frakes was directing, learn how to lock down the camera for crying out loud
Overall though it was enjoyable enough to keep me watching.
Last edited:
Two ways they could possibly use to escape the Shrike:
1. Figure out how to "move" the out exit so it is aimed at the Shrike
or
2. Position the Titan in front of the Shrike, fire at it, portal opens in front, takes in the weapons, PICARD MANEUVER away so Shrike thinks Titan is between the exit and them so the exit appears right in front of the Shrike. Just a little Warp power is needed. They keep stressing they only have a little power (9%, i think). Should be enough. I know they can't go to Warp in the nebula, but the reason for that is not explained completely, so a small, localized jump might be possible.
.
1. Figure out how to "move" the out exit so it is aimed at the Shrike
or
2. Position the Titan in front of the Shrike, fire at it, portal opens in front, takes in the weapons, PICARD MANEUVER away so Shrike thinks Titan is between the exit and them so the exit appears right in front of the Shrike. Just a little Warp power is needed. They keep stressing they only have a little power (9%, i think). Should be enough. I know they can't go to Warp in the nebula, but the reason for that is not explained completely, so a small, localized jump might be possible.
.
Deanna isn’t in STO.
Other than as archive audio from First Contact.
Maybe you misheard what game.