Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x02 - "Disengage"

[DaveyNY]

TNG s07e22 Bloodlines?

PIcard's children are targets.

True.
Not a contested fact.
Simply stating that Jack would be considered a Jr. legally, if the circumstances I pointed out above are true.
Beverly a widow, is still Jack Crusher's wife.
Unless she and Picard got married at some point.

If she doesn't list who the father is on the birth certificate and names the child a Crusher,
then legally by default the child is considered a part of the Crusher family.
Bloodline not withstanding.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Not sure how that ties in.
No father listed means no targeting.

I know it's strange, but I was agreeing with you.

I still think Rene Picard was milked of spinal fluid by Shinzon until he died.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I know it's strange, but I was agreeing with you.

I still think Rene Picard was milked of spinal fluid by Shinzon until he died.

Sometimes I just can't tell.

 

[DaveyNY]

Sometimes I just can't tell.

I still can't.

 

[Commander Troi]

Pagh Patrol. Keeping the wraiths in the firecaves.

::applause:: Very nice!

 

[bookworm8571]

True.
Not a contested fact.
Simply stating that Jack would be considered a Jr. legally, if the circumstances I pointed out above are true.
Beverly a widow, is still Jack Crusher's wife.
Unless she and Picard got married at some point.

If she doesn't list who the father is on the birth certificate and names the child a Crusher,
then legally by default the child is considered a part of the Crusher family.
Bloodline not withstanding.

Most laws have a time limit for presumption of parentage. Any child born within nine or ten months of Jack R. Crusher’s death would have been presumed to be sired by him. That doesn’t apply to a child born decades after his death unless his widow specifically established that she used his banked sperm or embryos created using his DNA. Her son Jack Crusher is presumably named in honor of her dead husband but is not related to him. Crusher is the name Beverly has used professionally and in her personal life, so she gave her legal surname to her son as well. I’ve known more than one person who acquired a surname in a similar way, even though there is no blood or legal connection to the man who originally carried it.

 

[Citiprime]

Given M'Talas Prime is where her ex-Husband is also based, is it her homeworld? Was she born outside the Federation? Would explain a lot in terms of her seeming a bit less 'Federation' than our average Earth-raised Starfleet academy graduate.

M'Talas Prime had a Starfleet recruiting installation and the Federation was putting statues to commemorate Starfleet personnel there. I think that points to it being a Federation member, (e.g., the US military does recruit non-citizens but doesn't put recruiting installations outside US territory) and maybe M'Talas Prime presumably started as a human colony given the human-to-alien ratio of the population we see.

There's been multiple indications in canon that once you get past Earth and beyond Sol, the utopian aspects about "no war, no crime, no money and no social problems" of the Federation become a bit more sketchy. Remember Tasha Yar came from a human colony that had devolved to having "rape gangs."

 

[Sci]

M'Talas Prime had a Starfleet recruiting installation and the Federation was putting statues to commemorate Starfleet personnel there. I think that points to it being a Federation member, (e.g., the US military does recruit non-citizens but doesn't put recruiting installations outside US territory) and maybe M'Talas Prime presumably started as a human colony given the human-to-alien ratio of the population we see.

There's been multiple indications in canon that once you get past Earth and beyond Sol, the utopian aspects about "no war, no crime, no money and no social problems" of the Federation become a bit more sketchy. Remember Tasha Yar came from a human colony that had devolved to having "rape gangs."

There's too much economic inequality, wealth scarcity, and crime for M'Talas to be a Federation Member world. Numerous episodes have made it clear that it's not just Earth that's virtually eliminated those things -- it's every Federation Member. The only parts of the Federation where you have that kind of scarcity are far out on the frontier where the economy is not well-developed -- new colony worlds, in other words. And "Legacy" (TNG) explicitly established that Turkana IV had been a colony far on the frontier where civil authority had broken down and the factions had declared independence from the Federation in 2352.

 

[Photoman15]

Funeral hook-ups are a thing. Emotions running high and all.

What do you think Jean-Luc and Beverly did after the Betazoid part of Will and Deanna's wedding? I mean, they were "dressed" for it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

M'Talas Prime had a Starfleet recruiting installation and the Federation was putting statues to commemorate Starfleet personnel there. I think that points to it being a Federation member, (e.g., the US military does recruit non-citizens but doesn't put recruiting installations outside US territory) and maybe M'Talas Prime presumably started as a human colony given the human-to-alien ratio of the population we see.

There's been multiple indications in canon that once you get past Earth and beyond Sol, the utopian aspects about "no war, no crime, no money and no social problems" of the Federation become a bit more sketchy. Remember Tasha Yar came from a human colony that had devolved to having "rape gangs."

Two camps came to power on Turkana IV, and diposed the Federation Government. Which ever faction had the sub space radio, declared independence in a way that the Federation had to accept it, rather than put boots on the ground and haul everyone to a reeducation block.

Decades of war later with no amenities to speak of Tasha passes the entrance exam to Starfleet Academy beating out 4 ufp citizens who can already read and write.

Either her entrance exam was non standardised, of they did the full Uhura on Tasha, and gave this Future day Tarzan 15 years of basic education over night.

Death of personality.

Murder.

Starfleet overwrote her original personality because it was embarrassing, and replaced a monkey girl with a good soldier.

 

[DaveyNY]

Most laws have a time limit for presumption of parentage. Any child born within nine or ten months of Jack R. Crusher’s death would have been presumed to be sired by him. That doesn’t apply to a child born decades after his death unless his widow specifically established that she used his banked sperm or embryos created using his DNA. Her son Jack Crusher is presumably named in honor of her dead husband but is not related to him. Crusher is the name Beverly has used professionally and in her personal life, so she gave her legal surname to her son as well. I’ve known more than one person who acquired a surname in a similar way, even though there is no blood or legal connection to the man who originally carried it.

In the eyes of the law if Jack's birth certificate lists him as a Crusher and Beverly has not remarried or named someone else as the father, then Jack can lawfully claim to be a Jr. and be afforded all the legal rights as one of Jack Sr.'s offspring.
The law only recognizes official documents, not the actual bloodline.

Now if someone were to challenge Jack Jr.'s claim in court, say to get DNA testing done and proved he was not actually Jack Sr.'s son, then the court would disallow his claim.

Government Red Tape often trumps actual facts.

 

[Guy Gardener]

In the eyes of the law if Jack's birth certificate list him as a Crusher and Beverly has not remarried or named someone else as the father, then Jack can lawfully claim to be a Jr. and be afforded all the legal rights as one of Jack Sr.'s offspring.
The law only recognizes official documents, not the actual bloodline.

Now if someone were to challenge Jack Jr.'s claim in court, say to get DNA testing done and proved he was not actually Jack Sr.'s son, then the court would disallow his claim.

Government Red Tape often trumps actual facts.

This is the future.

DNA would be collected, authenticated and recorded at birth, just like babies used to put their foot prints on legal documents.

It's still as you described, but there are less steps.

Oh.

It's already the future?

The DNA of virtually every newborn in the United States is collected and tested soon after birth. There are some good reasons for this testing, but it also raises serious privacy concerns that parents should know about. States require hospitals to screen newborns for certain genetic and other disorders.14/05/2010

 

[DaveyNY]

This is the future.

DNA would be collected, authenticated and recorded at birth, just like babies used to put their foot prints on legal documents.

It's still as you described, but there are less steps.

Oh.

It's already the future?

Don't know where you got that from but it is illegal for a hospital to collect DNA from a baby without the parents permission.
It is not done automatically.
The parents have to be informed ahead of time even for the RN to collect the baby's footprint.
(the permission slip is included in the admission pack and is specifically pointed out to be signed)
Also, if genetic testing is done, it's done while the baby is still in the womb and it is done at the request of the parents.
Again, it is not automatic.
There are actually some State laws now, that prevent DNA test results from being used to abort a fetus due to found genetic defects. (even if the defect is known to be fatal 100% of the time)
I'll let you guess which States those are.

The paperwork that RN's have to give parents upon admission to a Birthing Center includes the Federal & State HIPAA laws as to what the hospital can and can't do with the baby's info. and the parents rights to refuse.
It is very stringent.

 

[Skipper]

I know it's being more than a bit pedantic, but technically Admiral Picard's son
is Jack Crusher Jr.
If he is going by Crusher rather than Picard on his birth certificate.

Why in the 25th century they should observe current customs of the US about naming..?

 

[DaveyNY]

Why wouldn't they?

 

[Mike Doyle]

I know it's being more than a bit pedantic, but technically Admiral Picard's son
is Jack Crusher Jr.
If he is going by Crusher rather than Picard on his birth certificate.

This is an American thing though.

In the UK if a child has the same name there is no addition of junior. Not sure about other places.

Jack is basically British. (Can’t get more British than Downton Abbey).

 

[Skipper]

Why wouldn't they?

For a lot of reasons, like there are other nations on this planet? And because US hasn't the most progressive customs about naming? I mean, there is still customary for women taking the husband's surname, like they are their property.

 

[DaveyNY]

The implied future we are watching is almost 100% based on how things are done in the here and now with any changes usually used to indicate the moral implications in the present.

And are almost always based on the perspective of American viewers.

 

[Skipper]

And are almost always based on the perspective of American viewers.

Sure, and we're painfully aware of it. Like when there's a trial in any Star Trek series and it's always a sci-fi copy of something seen in Law & Order, even on alien planets. As if we forgot that now the Civil Law is the most used legal system on the planet and the nations that use the Common Law are the minority.

 

[Mike Doyle]

And are almost always based on the perspective of American viewers.

That doesn’t mean that when occasionally they allude to something that is how other countries do it you can assume it’s a mistake.