What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[Sci]

Yeah, from what I understand, he smoked four packs a day. He was a "marathon smoker". So if any other actor who plays Spock doesn't have that same type of voice... totally understandable. Under the circumstances, I'd much rather they don't have that kind of voice.

It is startling how much younger Ethan Peck looks than Nimoy during TOS even though Peck is roughly the same age Nimoy was.

 

[Farscape One]

Well said, Lord Garth.

I would actually call season 7 the worst of TNG... you have "Liaisons", "Force of Nature", "Sub Rosa", "Journey's End", "Firstborn", and "Bloodlines".

And while it does have great gems like "Phantasms", "Dark Page", "Parallels", "The Pegasus", "Lower Decks", "Masks", and "All Good Things..", the rest of the season is pretty mediocre.

 

[cooleddie74]

Season 7 was the laziest and most disappointing considering how far the series had come since 1988. It definitely has the most boring episodes that I usually go out of my way to avoid rewatching.

 

[1001001]

I'd take Season 7 over Season 1 any day.

Even Masks, the height of terribleness.

 

[Vger23]

I need to post in this thread more often.

 

[Farscape One]

Even Masks, the height of terribleness.

Do I need to defend this episode again?

 

[Lord Garth]

When I was re-watching TNG in 2019, Season 7 was broadcasting to me in big bold letters, "Don't mind us! We're running out the clock until the movie!!!"

 

[The Wormhole]

As science fiction television, the first two seasons of TNG are, on the whole, far more creative than any of the seasons that followed.

I'd also include season 3 in the "more creative" list, but otherwise, I agree. By the fourth season TNG got itself into a rut that it never really broke free of.

 

[1001001]

Do I need to defend this episode again?

Nope.

 

[Orphalesion]

It gave us Admiral Leonard McCoy, Lore, Dixon Hill and L.Q. "Sonny" Clemmonds. It was a mess but it did have some gems.

Controversial opinion: Dixon Hill is not a "gem" and it, just like all the Holodeck stuff where characters just play out a story should have never existed.
When I watch Star Trek I'm here for scifi stuff, not to watch Picard LARP a crappy noir story.

 

[Farscape One]

I actually never minded episodes that have our characters play on the holodeck.

It's the 'holodeck gone wrong' part that bugs me, mostly because it became a trope. Very rarely was it a good use.

("OUR MAN BASHIR" was a perfect example of doing a 'holodeck gone wrong' plot because it actually didn't go wrong. Most clever use of the plot I ever saw the franchise do. And yes, I am aware I am a bit biased because I am a huge Bond fan and I have rewatched "OUR MAN BASHIR" probably more times than any episode in the franchise. In fact... my wife and I rewatched it the other night while eating dinner.)

 

[Orphalesion]

I dislike Out Man Bashir just as much as I dislike Dixon Hill. If I wanted to see some James Bond spy stuff (which I don't) I would watch a James Bond movie, not Star Trek.

And as much as I dislike PIC, with Stardust City Rag it showed that you can have a noir story/atmosphere within the Star Trek universe, without having the characters literally be in a simulation of the 1930s/40s

 

[Farscape One]

I dislike Out Man Bashir just as much as I dislike Dixon Hill. If I wanted to see some James Bond spy stuff (which I don't) I would watch a James Bond movie, not Star Trek.

And as much as I dislike PIC, with Stardust City Rag it showed that you can have a noir story/atmosphere within the Star Trek universe, without having the characters literally be in a simulation of the 1930s/40s

Ah, but where else can you get STAR TREK and James Bond in the same sitting? GENIUS! (Yet another reason I love Ronald D. Moore.)

But different strokes for different folks.

I will say "Stardust City Rag" was a good PICARD episode. Definitely a favorite of the series, and one of the few, like DISCO episodes, where I actually can remember the episode title and the plot.

 

[Anduinel]

TNG Season 1 isn't bad overall, I just think the quality varies. Focusing on all the positives:

.....

• "The Naked Now" has long been a guilty pleasure of mine and I've said that on here years (decades at this point).

I still wouldn't say TNN is a good episode, but it's one I think gets better on rewatch. Once the characters were better established and there's more contrast between their ooc/ott behavior and their baseline characterization, it gets a lot funnier.

 

[Farscape One]

That's a good point about "The Naked Now". It does get better on a rewatch, but only retroactively after watching the rest of the series.

It will definitely never appear on any 'good episodes you must watch' list for the franchise, and especially TNG. But it's still fun.

 

[eschaton]

Well, you have TAS in between; for those who don't go for that, which is many, but not I, that's another problem.

Plus, some films intervene. That starts with TMP, which many people also find to be a problem (also not I); indeed every film has its share of critics.

Yeah, I'm aware there's some stuff in between. But adding up all of TAS + the first four movies is still well less than the average (pre-modern) episode of Trek.

I don't have strong feelings on TAS in either direction to be honest. Some of the episodes are a bit better than others, but on the whole it's just a "meh" experience for me. I think the low production quality is part of it - not just when it comes to the animation, but also the lack of care that was put into directing the voice work at times.

I don't think TNG season 1 is a slog to get through. It's not the best season, but ut certainly is not as bad as many say.

The early part of Season 1 is awful. Like, five out of the six worst episodes in the season come within the first seven episodes of the season. Only Encounter at Farpoint (salvaged by the Q stuff) and Where No One Has Gone Before are watchable. After that I think the only really big stinker of TNG Season 1 is Angel One. But there's a lot of mediocrity - a lot of flawed episodes or just plain boring episodes.

It is interesting though, because TNG in Season 1 still pretty explicitly felt like TOS with a new cast. Everything from the music to the dialogue to direction just felt like an updated TOS. But the show veered away from this pretty quickly in the second season before Piller fully put his stamp on it in the third.

 

[eschaton]

I'd take Season 7 over Season 1 any day.

Even Masks, the height of terribleness.

Season 7 probably had more absolutely awful episodes than Season 1, but it also had four incredible episodes (Parallels, The Pegasus, Lower Decks, and All Good Things...) which were leagues above the best of Season 1 (which was probably 11001001, though I have a soft spot for The Big Goodbye as well).

Ultimately I'd rather watch a season of TV with some 9-10 episodes and some 1-3 episodes, rather than a season which is pretty consistently in the 4-5 range. Particularly because awful episodes are at least sometimes watchable because they are funny.

 

[Lord Garth]

I still wouldn't say TNN is a good episode, but it's one I think gets better on rewatch. Once the characters were better established and there's more contrast between their ooc/ott behavior and their baseline characterization, it gets a lot funnier.

That's a good point about "The Naked Now". It does get better on a rewatch, but only retroactively after watching the rest of the series.

I get the argument, but it's theoretical to me. I caught TNG mid-way through during its original run and already knew the characters. So, for me as a viewer, "The Naked Now" was retroactive right from the first time I saw the episode in strip-syndication in 1992.

I saw both the TOS Movies and TNG out of order. I was watching the current stuff (at the time) and had to play catch-up on everything else from before. TOS itself was the worst example of this. The local stations in the '90s kept taking it on and off the schedule or put it on during times when I wasn't allowed to stay up, so it took me about five years to finally see all of TOS.

 

[cooleddie74]

"Masks" is a good episode. I'll die on that hill. And the one upon which Masaka will wake.

 

[eschaton]

I get the argument, but it's theoretical to me. I caught TNG mid-way through during its original run and already knew the characters. So, for me as a viewer, "The Naked Now" was retroactive right from the first time I saw the episode in strip-syndication in 1992.

My parents were big Trekkies, so I was exposed to TOS a lot as a child, and even somehow caught some of the TAS episode. I distinctly remember the entire family sitting down to watch Encounter at Farpoint when I was eight. We made family night with TNG a weekly event.

I don't remember seeing the Naked Now, but it was probably awkward for my parents having a pre-pubescent child watch an episode so full of sexual content. That said, it likely went completely over my head.