Barclay was right about certain things in Next Generation

[Mojochi]

In other words, it was implied?

Well, I mean, one has to assume what comes next if he isn't interrupted via intercom right at that very moment he's clearly about to kiss Troi, & then tells her it'll have to wait. There are undoubtedly further designs of a sexual nature going on there

It's a leap, but a plausible one, & so is him actually stabbing the Musketeers, & not just playing acting with them, but the little Riker warns of death at Barclay's hand, & frankly, what would be any point in a sword play program if it didn't involve touches, which in this case involves a tangibly realistic experience of him sinking his blade through the bodies of effigies of people he knows in his real life.

It's not gruesome scenes of torture or brutalization maybe, but it's approaching that neighborhood, & that's certainly concerning. He's dueling them with metal to flesh.

 

[Oddish]

The Musketeers fantasy did not look excessively bloody... it just seemed like a fencing program with some bells and whistles. And with Barclay protected by the safeties, he could safely choose whether he impaled anyone. In general, he was just non-lethally bouncing them about.

As for Troi, no way to know what he was doing with her. Sex is a pretty casual thing in the Federation.

 

[Ragitsu]

Sex is a pretty casual thing in the Federation.

I could be underestimating the openness of sexuality in The Federation, but...unless both Reg and Troi were in a relationship or she gave prior approval, I imagine a few eyebrows are going to be raised Vulcan style if someone walks into the Holodeck and spots the engineer having sex with the ship's counselor.

 

[Oddish]

Troi was upset enough about the "Goddess of Empathy". I expect she'd have liked it even less if she knew Barclay was smooching with her.

 

[Mojochi]

The Musketeers fantasy did not look excessively bloody... it just seemed like a fencing program with some bells and whistles. And with Barclay protected by the safeties, he could safely choose whether he impaled anyone. In general, he was just non-lethally bouncing them about.

Maybe for the majority, & a lot of it does seem to center around them being primarily made to look like buffoons, which is why I'll admit it's not grotesque, or truly horrendous acts he's engaged in, but the point is, the act itself of besting people with sharpened steel, even as playful as it might appear on its comedic surface, at the very least taunts with him laying his steel TO them, & indulging in this fulfillment for any lengths, can we really think he never actually has?

I'd be almost certain he's stabbed & cut those guys, probably a fair bit more than once. It would be almost nothing for it to have occurred inadvertently, & I can imagine their injury being played just as campy as all the rest of their behavior, but it's no little thing to be putting blades into people's flesh, no matter how sport-like or gameplay it appears. Is he going at them all Braveheart, into mangled cadavers? Very unlikely, but he's still dipping his toes over on the wrong side of similarly dark inclinations imho

 

[DonIago]

...I probably shouldn't talk about how many people I've killed while playing the Grand Theft Auto or Half-Life games, much less how often I chuckled at some of the deaths (my favorite being a bad patch to the original Half-Life that caused the Barney who was supposed to let me out of the tram suddenly die before doing so).

 

[Ragitsu]

A) Those weren't people from the real world (as in, people you know).
B) Primitive late twentieth-century (or early twenty-first century) computer games are nothing compared to the verisimilitude or adaptability/reactivity offered by a Holodeck.
C) Presumably, you weren't imagining your coworkers or other similarly connected group of people while you were mowing down randomly-generated pedestrians.

 

[DonIago]

A) Does that matter? Killing images of strangers is okay but killing images of people you don't know is not?
B) To people in the twenty-fourth century holodecks are probably the equivalent of contemporary higher-end computer games.
C) Don't be too sure.

 

[Mojochi]

To be fair, there is a tactile realism associated with holodeck characters that makes killing them almost 100% as real as killing a real person. We do not have such a comparison available for us to make. Any way you choose to physically interact with a character there feels like a real interaction. That would have considerably more effect on the person who chooses those interactions

& yes imho, the inclination towards having more specific thoughts of murder on people you know carries with it more concerning psychological implications, than just playing a generic kill game, if to no one else, at least it should to those people you know lol

 

[Ragitsu]

Mindless, faceless and without genuine emotional history/investment.

 

[trekshark]

Not saying it's not violence, but
1) it's completely fictional violence, which does not automatically translate into an actual desire, let alone readiness to re-create it in reality.
2)it's not the type of fictional violence that should land him on a watch list or stuff like that

Like a lot of people might indulge in thoughts like that against people who continuously annoy them, me too, doesn't mean I really want to hurt people.

I'd even go so far as to say him blowing off steam with holodeck versions of crew that got to him made it less likely that he'd do it in person

 

[DonIago]

& yes imho, the inclination towards having more specific thoughts of murder on people you know carries with it more concerning psychological implications, than just playing a generic kill game, if to no one else, at least it should to those people you know lol

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think there's a lot of people out there who have at least intermittent thoughts of violence towards both people they know and people they don't know on a semi-regular basis, with no intention of doing anything to act it out in the real world.

Just as there's people who have at least intermittent thoughts of sexual attraction towards both people they know and people they don't know with no intention of doing anything to act on it...perhaps because they're in a relationship that precludes such acting out.

 

[Kor]

The thing with Tuvok choking holo-Neelix to death comes to mind as well.

Kor

 

[Mojochi]

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think there's a lot of people out there who have at least intermittent thoughts of violence towards both people they know and people they don't know on a semi-regular basis, with no intention of doing anything to act it out in the real world.

Just as there's people who have at least intermittent thoughts of sexual attraction towards both people they know and people they don't know with no intention of doing anything to act on it...perhaps because they're in a relationship that precludes such acting out.

Maybe so, but thoughts aren't really what we're talking about. This too is an act, unto itself, of fantasy manifestation. I just have a hard time seeing the difference between someone spending the time to create effigies of real persons, in near perfect simulation, & interacting with them to a level of addiction, from someone building a little closet shrine of photos & mementos. Maybe they aren't going to go further with that obsession, but it's still a level of unhealthiness to be doing it

 

[Ragitsu]

Maybe Reg didn't need counseling? Maybe he didn't need to speak up for himself? Maybe all he needed was to keep doing what he was doing: retreating to the Holodeck in order to interact with simulacrums of people - people that he works with on a daily basis - via acts of violence and romance (possibly sex?).

 

[Ragitsu]

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think there's a lot of people out there who have at least intermittent thoughts of violence towards both people they know and people they don't know on a semi-regular basis, with no intention of doing anything to act it out in the real world.

Just as there's people who have at least intermittent thoughts of sexual attraction towards both people they know and people they don't know with no intention of doing anything to act on it...perhaps because they're in a relationship that precludes such acting out.

Those same people don't have access to incredibly realistic - and programmable - simulations where they play out their violent and sexual fantasies on those same troublesome/tempting individuals in their lives. Does that not factor into the equation?

Furthermore, engaging in such behavior, regularly, especially a means of avoiding action that would better their miserable real-life situations, is not conducive towards promoting improvement; if anything, it is likely to foster unrealistic expectations.

The thing with Tuvok choking holo-Neelix to death comes to mind as well.

Wasn't he suffering from the effects of a Vulcan mind-meld with a psychopathic Betazoid? That's one hell of an outlier.

 

[DonIago]

To me? No, I don't think it really factors into the equation. (shrug)

Obviously if they're doing it enough that it's affecting the rest of their life then that's an issue, just as playing computer games instead of going to school is an issue.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I also figured he might have Asperger's or another form of autism.

It's possible but not definite.

I have none of those things but at some points in my life had extreme social anxiety.

You can have no neurological conditions and still have such negative social experiences in life that it affects your trust of social interaction.

 

[DonIago]

^Hence "might".

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Regarding the effort it would take to create such re-creations - significantly less if he had access to transporter scans, medical records, and the like, which I gather he does due to his job, but which presents even more ethical questions.

I wonder if certain people can make playable hologram templates of themselves available to anyone, with a certain unspoken trust involved, intended for purposes such as practicing an away team maneuver or performing a test with certain individuals present, even if the real people aren't available. Like Deanna's command test - she had Geordi and others as NPCs she could order about.

Regarding Reg's possible neuroatypical-ness - apart from cures and medical procedures, methods of learning and teaching would also have been developed to facilitate the gaining of knowledge despite certain challenges one may have.