Rick Berman, Branon Braga and TOS

[Richard S. Ta]

It basically came down to Berman wanted the show's theme to be Faith of the Heart, Braga wanted U2's Beautiful Day. The rights to Beautiful Day were way too much for the show to afford

I'm confused now. It's been about six months since I saw the ENT Season 1 VAM, but the impression I got was both Braga and Berman were into U2, but U2 didn't want their song on a Star Trek show full stop. That's when they went to Warren.

I could be absolutely wrong about that though.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

The story I heard was that Beautiful Day would've been their ideal choice, but just cost too much money and they knew that from the start. The song was only ever intended to be used as a temp track to be replaced by the real music later.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Maybe I'm having a brainfart or I was stoned when watching or something? I'm sure I recall them saying U2 just refused flat out to have their song on a Star trek show.

 

[The Wormhole]

I'm confused now. It's been about six months since I saw the ENT Season 1 VAM, but the impression I got was both Braga and Berman were into U2, but U2 didn't want their song on a Star Trek show full stop. That's when they went to Warren.

I could be absolutely wrong about that though.

I'm referencing Braga's interview in the book The Fifty Year Mission.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

I'm referencing Braga's interview in the book The Fifty Year Mission.

My faulty memory I think.

I’ll check out the VAM again when I have time, but I strongly suspect you’re right.

Edit - You are right. Spent a portion of a lazy morning checking out YouTube and though Beautiful Day by U2 served as a placeholder for many months (according to Braga), they never actually approached Bono and co. as they were certain they couldn't afford it.

Apologies!

 

[Richard S. Ta]

The interview from page 1 is interesting, but at times he's very contradictory.

He says:

VOYAGER is given carte blanche by Paramount. That’s one of the great things about Paramount. Paramount left us alone. They always left us alone. They let NEXT GEN do whatever it wanted. God knows it let DEEP SPACE NINE do whatever we wanted. It lets VOYAGER do whatever it wants. The studio is not the problem here.

But then he says:

“Tell me why there are no gay characters in STAR TREK,” says Ron Moore. “This is one of those uncomfortable questions I hate getting when I was working on the show, because there is no good answer for it. There is no answer for it other than people in charge don’t want gay characters in STAR TREK, period.

But then I'm not sure if by 'people in charge' he means Berman or the Studio.

In some ways he's prophetic. Way before Enterprise he's advocating putting Star Trek away for a few years so it can percolate into popular culture for a while. But then he says it would be impossible to recast the TOS crew. I suppose it actually was unimaginable back then and as he said, if the Robert Redford/Kirk TMP rumour had actually happened then we'd be looking at a different franchise by now. Something more akin to Lost in Space, where the same characters are repeatedly modernised and recast through a succession of reboots. If TMP had been a recast we'd most likely never have had a TNG and Star Trek 09 would have been the latest in a line.

As it is, they kept the original cast and created continuity... It's a cool read. Very clever man.

To play Devil's Advocate for Berman, in the interview RDM rightly describes Voyager as being very slick from a production point of view and Berman had spent years in the big chair by that point, perfecting that same production process. It's understandable that he wasn't all that interested in TOS or even had an active dislike of it. Remember he was close to Roddenberry and came onboard early on in TNG. By that point, Roddenberry himself was dismissive of TOS and wrote off TAS completely. Roddenberry felt that TNG was a superior refinement of his original vision. For all his many faults, Berman made great effort to try to channel the wishes and spirit of Roddenberry as producer and as far as he was concerned, Roddenberry didn't think the original show was as important anymore.

We know Berman respected Gene a great deal. I think it's likely Gene that sowed the seeds in his mind that they (the TNG guys onwards) where doing a better thing.

 

[Lord Garth]

It's really a matter of picking your poison.

Rick Berman: Who doesn't like TOS, and never wrote the characters, but won't touch it or take liberties with it.

or

Alex Kurtzman: Who does like TOS, and at least wrote a version of the characters, but will touch it and take liberties with it.

Anyone who posts here knows which poison I chose. And obviously there are other posters who go the other way, both ways, or a different way altogether.

 

[Phil123]

This is a really good point. I’d prefer not touching it myself but I’ve never seen it put like this and it’s really interesting to look at Berman era and the new era in this way. Fascinating.

It's really a matter of picking your poison.

Rick Berman: Who doesn't like TOS, and never wrote the characters, but won't touch it or take liberties with it.

or

Alex Kurtzman: Who does like TOS, and at least wrote a version of the characters, but will touch it and take liberties with it.

Anyone who posts here knows which poison I chose. And obviously there are other posters who go the other way, both ways, or a different way altogether.

 

[FederationHistorian]

This was at the time when such boy bands like Backstreet Boys, N'Sync and 98 Degrees were at the height of their popularity. UPN wanted to manufacture their own similar boy band to cash in on the level of popularity and use one of their shows to launch the boy band, and Enterprise was chosen to be that show.

I get that! But why not have Russel Watson in alien makeup performing a holoconcert through a holostage? And then have the characters name drop a bunch of early ‘00s bands? If they were so dedicated to this boyband idea, why not show the concept off so that a band might want to make a special appearance on the show later on in the series?

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Because the only people who wanted it were the people with no interest in the artistic integrity of the series.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

I know it's an analogy and a lovely post (@Lord Garth), but to me it's just Star Trek that was made like that back then. If you know what I mean. I think there's a lot to enjoy from all of the Berman shows. The ups and downs of all the Berman shows are still talked about decades later, just like we do with TOS.

What I like about the present stuff is that the shows don't feel like each other. Each is distinct and there are people who don't like one, but maybe like the other, but somehow each show is doing a different thing. In the future fans will look back on this as a crazy time when new Trek was on all year.

But those Berman shows. They occasionally had low, low, lows. But also high highs. And Deep Space Nine. They did that. Nothing from streaming Trek has been as bold as that. If an episodes on, from TNG, VOY, DS9, ENT... It's probably worth a watch. It's baseline average and is usually batting higher in some aspect.

Gosh, I can't wait for Picard Season 2. Good times!

 

[The Wormhole]

I get that! But why not have Russel Watson in alien makeup performing a holoconcert through a holostage? And then have the characters name drop a bunch of early ‘00s bands? If they were so dedicated to this boyband idea, why not show the concept off so that a band might want to make a special appearance on the show later on in the series?

Probably because by the time Russell Watson became involved with the show the boy band idea was already rejected and abandoned. And besides, Watson was in his mid thirties when Enterprise was on the air. The term "boy band" typically refers to guys in their early twenties or younger.

 

[Lord Garth]

Gosh, I can't wait for Picard Season 2. Good times!

Of course. Because it's the best of both worlds.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Of course. Because it's the best of both worlds.

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[Dukhat]

I get that! But why not have Russel Watson in alien makeup performing a holoconcert through a holostage? And then have the characters name drop a bunch of early ‘00s bands? If they were so dedicated to this boyband idea, why not show the concept off so that a band might want to make a special appearance on the show later on in the series?

Because having a boy band on the show is the dumbest idea ever?

Because the only people who wanted it were the people with no interest in the artistic integrity of the series.

That's exactly why I feel B&B don't deserve a lot of the scorn they get from fans. I've always said that if fans want someone to be pissed at, they can look right at Dawn Ostroff, president of UPN and a prime example of head-up-ass UPN thinking. Her constant mantra concerning ENT was that she wanted the show to be 'sexier,' with the complete misconception that fans of Star Trek watch the show to see sex. She had absolutely no concept that ENT was supposed to be a show about the events that led to the formation of the United Federation of Planets. Not about people rubbing oil all over their semi-naked bodies in a decontamination chamber. Or about the crew running around in their underwear. Or about a Vulcan masseuse. And definitely not about boy-bands.

 

[FederationHistorian]

Probably because by the time Russell Watson became involved with the show the boy band idea was already rejected and abandoned. And besides, Watson was in his mid thirties when Enterprise was on the air. The term "boy band" typically refers to guys in their early twenties or younger.

Everyone knew Jolene Blalock was in her late twenties when playing the mid-sixties T’Pol. If they want to say the aliens are considered a boyband on another planet and less than twenty years old, they can.

And since alterative rock was the other big thing at the time, could have also written that they were a band that was into the early ‘00s music. Earth was already in contact with a few species before the launch of the NX-01, so I don’t find it hard to believe that a few cultural exchanges were made.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

The executive (apparently) wanted actual present day bands to play, with an advert for their new album at the end. No one else in the world wanted this.

 

[fireproof78]

Bad, executive, bad. No cookie for you!

 

[The Wormhole]

If they want to say the aliens are considered a boyband on another planet and less than twenty years old, they can.

That wouldn't accomplish the goal of assembling an actual band of actual twenty year old guys though.

 

[Dukhat]

Why are we even entertaining that this could have been a thing? It was an incredibly stupid idea concocted by incredibly stupid people. Trying to justify a 'better' way of doing it defeats the point that it would have made no sense to have a different band on the ship every week, much less a boy band, girl band, middle-aged band, or old fogey band. Having a band on the ship has nothing to do with the premise of the show.