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How The U.S.S. Excalibur Was Destroyed

There Be Whales Here

Lieutenant Commander
Red Shirt
In "The Ultimate Computer" the M-5 took over the Enterprise and attacked the War Games fleet of ships, resulting in "killing" the U.S.S. Excalibur and it's entire crew. The onscreen evidence of the damage caused is minimal as the producers obviously couldn't create (or have the money for) elaborate special effects or models and the portrayal of space combat on screen was still in it's infancy. As a result, the only evidence we got was the re-use of the wrecked Constellation to represent the Excalibur seen at a distance on the Enterprise's view screen and dialogue about the ship "looking dead" and the sensors showing no life. The TOS remaster of the episode really doesn't add any more clues other then the new shots of Enterprise's phasers hitting the Excalibur with some flashes where the beams land.

So I often wondered, especially after ST:TWOK came out and we finally saw how a phaser strike actually damaged a ship, how exactly could the attack by the M-5 have resulted in the entire crew being decimated yet left the vessel itself relatively intact?

As damaging as phasers were in TWOK, they still seemed more like something to soften up a target or weaken the shields, then use a photon torpedo as a secondary strike to cause serious harm if not outright blow a ship apart. While the Reliant and the Enterprise may trade some pretty good blows with their phasers, the end result is still fairly functional ships with just some burn marks, exposed deck plating and internal fires and explosions. It's only after a torpedo blows off Reliant's nacelle does one of the combatants seem permanently out of commission. The superiority of photons over phasers was demonstrated again in ST: TUC when the Klingon torpedo goes completely through the Enterprise's saucer once the shields are down. So while I don't doubt that phasers alone could destroy an enemy ship it just seems like unless a hit is scored on a vital area, like say the warp core or anti-matter storage, it will require quite a few strikes to cause enough damage piecemeal.

Since we are given no evidence M-5 used torpedoes, one can only conclude all the overall damage that killed the Excalibur was done with phasers. The most obvious conclusion was all the combined strikes were enough to kill the entire crew through hull breaches and internal explosions, but I always had a problem with that. While undoubtedly that might be responsible for a good majority of the crew deaths, but there still should have been some survivors, if only a scant few, maybe found in an area that due to forcefields or emergency bulkheads, were spared any fires or exposure to space. But we are given no indication that this is the case and perhaps this lingering question could have been easily solved by causing the Excalibur to explode, maybe by just using the same "starburst" explosion effect TOS reused whenever they wanting to show something blowing up on the main screen.

I also often also wondered of the premise of M-5 being able to inflict such complete strikes on the Excalibur while simultaneously firing on three other starships and those 1 to 4 odds of the Enterprise against ships of it's own class always seemed a stretch even if the other crews were caught unprepared.

My theory of thought experiment has always been that the only way the entire crew was killed off and left the ship mostly intact was one of those phaser hits damaged one of the nacelles or other part of the warp drive systems to the point a baffle plate was ruptured and spewed delta rays systematically throughout the volume of the ship thereby insuring there would be not a single person left even if they survived any other damage as well as allowing what was left of the Excalibur to be salvaged and any bodies recovered.

This also has always left the unanswered question of what did become of the Excalibur afterwards though I'm guessing since there was no reason for the other starships to engage in a rescue operation of its crew, that it was simply towed back to a Federation port and then being too badly damaged, scrapped.
But one of the biggest disadvantages of TOS never following up on events in previous episodes, was in how this event affected Kirk in the long-term, since it was his ship that killed hundreds of fellow Starfleet officers. If TOS would had a continuity or character growth the same way the later Trek series did, I always imagined he might be dealing with some post-event guilt and lingering command doubts in the same vein Picard did after being forced to destroy so many starships as Locutus. But instead we are left with the impression it was just another business as usual adventure by the time next week's episode aired and no source I've ever seen or read, canon or not, that involves Kirk seems to bring up the events of this episode again.
 
Interesting. However, the phasers always seems to be the primary weapon (akin to the main armament of WWI and WWII capital ships) selected by the crew.

The HMS Hood was destroyed by one (possibly two) hits from the Bismarck. If we were to assume similar lethality….and The M5 computer would know the weaknesses of all Star Fleet vessels and have the accuracy to exploit them…. Then phasers could account for to destruction.

interesting also what Star Fleet did with the hulk. Tow it back to a star base perhaps?
 
I’m assuming that phasers on full against an unshielded starship with an AI targeting them is a pretty deadly combination. All it would take are precise strikes to critical areas of the ship (which M5 would know precisely) and your entire crew is gone.

In TWOK, you had Khan shooting to damage, not destroy. The Enterprise was underpowered and not likely using full phasers. In the nebula, targeting was inoperative so they were just happy to make contact.
 
Maybe the M-5 knocked out one of the systems that's never allowed to malfunction--the inertial dampeners. That would have gotten messy for the entire crew real fast.
 
Maybe the ship was destroyed?
Maybe not a warp core breach but maybe cracking the hull, and the ship left in pieces, something akin to to the NX enterprise over Tau Ceti, blown off the bridge, and split/cracked the hull in 2 or more pieces. You'd have emergency force fields, but if the power is completely blown out, i doubt they work. so the crew would be spaced, or cought in the explosion's, fires, maybe some got to the life boats, so when it was scanned, they'd already got off the ship.

as for the inertial dampeners.. yeah, that's raspberry jam on the walls even at almost any acceleration, for them to go from zero to .5 warp in seconds, your looking at 1000's of G's..
A good book on that is Honor Harrington series. there accelerating at 100's of G's and it has been shown in the book of battles where the compensators were hit, and the crew got turned into so much red goo, the crew wouldn't even have time to think.

On Phasers, as shown on Ds9, the Defiant's Pulse phasers taking out ships in not much time.
Same for Into Darkness, Enterprise is taken out by pulse phasers mostly.
 
We've seen full-powered phasers in TOS fired in at least two other episodes and "The Ultimate Computer" (original FX) seems to be consistent.

In "Balance of Terror" several proximity blast phaser bolts caused internal damage to the Romulan BOP at long to extreme range. Two direct hits killed most of the BOP crew at that range. The interior is heavily damaged but the exterior seems okay.

In "Day of the Dove" the Enterprise hits a damaged Klingon Battlecruiser that is within transporter range (<30,000km) and destroys it completely with phasers.

In the original FX "The Ultimate Computer", the Excalibur was struck multiple times at what appears to mid-to-long range resulting in all crew lost. If the Excalibur were much closer the ship would've been destroyed. The insides probably looked as messed up as the Romulan BOP.

Going to TWOK, if Khan fired full-powered phasers at point-blank range the Enterprise would've been destroyed and he wouldn't have had a chance to let Kirk "know who had beaten him". Sadly it seems that many Star Trek episodes and movies afterwards consider this a full-power battle and missed that detail from Khan. :(
 
Going to TWOK, if Khan fired full-powered phasers at point-blank range the Enterprise would've been destroyed and he wouldn't have had a chance to let Kirk "know who had beaten him". Sadly it seems that many Star Trek episodes and movies afterwards consider this a full-power battle and missed that detail from Khan. :(

Hey, good point. Khan wanted to play with his prey at first. Later, the nebula's particles were absorbing phaser energy and reducing their effectiveness.
 
In "Balance of Terror" several proximity blast phaser bolts caused internal damage to the Romulan BOP at long to extreme range. Two direct hits killed most of the BOP crew at that range.
We have no idea how much of the crew was killed, just what percentage of the "cockpit" (as it was described in the script) crew was killed or incapacitated.
 
Very interesting theories so far. It's given me new ground to think about and I thank everyone here for their input.

I guess my whole thought experiment was not so much of if phasers alone could decimate a ship's crew without destroying the entire ship, since I believe they could; but as to the exact circumstances of how it would happen. As I said, I was mainly going by the type of damage we saw in TWOK and I can see how not considering the differences in factors like power levels and disabling vs. destructive strikes could lead one to believe phasers are rather anemic if one was to go by the Enterprise/Reliant battle alone.

Though I still like my premise of at least a part of the crew perishing by being cooked by stray radiation, I also failed to consider the accepted premise that ship's phasers seem to be capable of the same setting variations as the hand units. If as shown in "A Piece of the Action" the phasers can be set for stun and fired upon adversaries on a planet, could they also not be set for dematerialize/disintegrate? By the M-5 using this setting one could easily imagine a beam not only penetrating another ship, but vaporizing entire internal compartments and of course anyone who happened to be in them. Of course unless the entire ship was dematerialized (which it clearly wasn't and I really wonder if a phaser could put out that much power to accomplish that), there might still be sections left intact with survivors. Seems like there are no pleasant ways to die in space.

But this still leaves my musing of how the M-5 was able to so effectively trash the Excalibur while having to deal with three other starships at the same time and I often wondered why it viewed that ship as the biggest "threat" in order to direct all it's fury upon it. After all it actually attacked the Lexington first and could have caused the same damage it did to the Excalibur if not outright blew it to pieces, especially since unlike the later attacks on the other ships, the Lexington was caught totally unaware. Maybe Wesley just had his lucky rabbit's foot that day; but it just seemed that for whatever reason the M-5 really had it out for the Excalibur.
 
TWOK clearly happens in an alternate universe, one where ships move at about 100 miles per hour, and where weapons that could once destroy "half a continent" are about as effective as cannonballs, even against unshielded ships.

So, disregarding TWOK (please, let's disregard TWOK), phasers are damned powerful weapons, as blssdwlf notes, able to blow up stuff at a distance of tens of thousands of kilometers. It also seems that ship's shields don't fully block a shot (since the Excalibur was losing people before the final hit). So, to Whales' point, I like the idea of that last blast hitting a critical component such that the environment of the ship no longer supports life. Life support going out wouldn't kill everyone immediately, but lethal radiation would. Inertial compensators, too, although I'd think that would fling the ship apart, too.
 
We have no idea how much of the crew was killed, just what percentage of the "cockpit" (as it was described in the script) crew was killed or incapacitated.

Fair enough - In "Balance of Terror" several proximity blast phaser bolts exploded near the Romulan BOP at long to extreme range and caused internal damage. Two direct hits killed most of the BOP bridge crew at that range and likely caused internal damage to other parts of the ship.

I guess my whole thought experiment was not so much of if phasers alone could decimate a ship's crew without destroying the entire ship, since I believe they could; but as to the exact circumstances of how it would happen. As I said, I was mainly going by the type of damage we saw in TWOK and I can see how not considering the differences in factors like power levels and disabling vs. destructive strikes could lead one to believe phasers are rather anemic if one was to go by the Enterprise/Reliant battle alone.

Though I still like my premise of at least a part of the crew perishing by being cooked by stray radiation, I also failed to consider the accepted premise that ship's phasers seem to be capable of the same setting variations as the hand units. If as shown in "A Piece of the Action" the phasers can be set for stun and fired upon adversaries on a planet, could they also not be set for dematerialize/disintegrate? By the M-5 using this setting one could easily imagine a beam not only penetrating another ship, but vaporizing entire internal compartments and of course anyone who happened to be in them. Of course unless the entire ship was dematerialized (which it clearly wasn't and I really wonder if a phaser could put out that much power to accomplish that), there might still be sections left intact with survivors. Seems like there are no pleasant ways to die in space.

The effects are old but we do see a Klingon Battlecruiser effectively vaporized in an explosion in "Day of the Dove".

But this still leaves my musing of how the M-5 was able to so effectively trash the Excalibur while having to deal with three other starships at the same time and I often wondered why it viewed that ship as the biggest "threat" in order to direct all it's fury upon it. After all it actually attacked the Lexington first and could have caused the same damage it did to the Excalibur if not outright blew it to pieces, especially since unlike the later attacks on the other ships, the Lexington was caught totally unaware. Maybe Wesley just had his lucky rabbit's foot that day; but it just seemed that for whatever reason the M-5 really had it out for the Excalibur.

From the episode, it looks like the Lexington was lucky and received a glancing blow as Enterprise's phasers hit the engineering section but only damage the impulse engines.

The 2nd phaser attack went to Excalibur which was called as a direct hit although they had fewer casualties. Prior to this point the formation had already split up so M5 was probably looking for opportunity kills.

M5's 3rd phaser attack actually went to Lexington but apparently wasn't as bad as Wesley was still in command and the ship was able to maneuver away. The Hood and Potemkin had already moved off so that left the Excalibur attempting to move off as well but apparently Enterprise was in a better position to give chase.

The 4th phaser attack went to the Excalibur and that killed their captain and first officer and caused many casualties. Since we know later that everyone eventually died (but not immediately since Wesley doesn't say everyone died in his report) we can assume that the internal damage knocked out critical systems and internal fires, radiation and/or vacuum of space eventually killed the surviving crew when M5 scanned it.

The 5th phaser attack went to the Potemkin. Potemkin might have been in the same flight vector used for chasing down Excalibur and M5 was just taking the most efficient route to get shots off on as many ships as it could. We know that all 3 ships were able to get out of phaser range and regroup.

It just seems to me that the Excalibur was rather unlucky taking a direct hit since the Lexington took the same number of hits but probably none of them were a direct hit...
 
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One could assume the other ships that could raise full shields did so as soon as they realized what the Enterprise was doing, but that M-5 attack on the Excalibur damaged its defenses and ergo it was more vulnerable to subsequent attack.
 
Going to TWOK, if Khan fired full-powered phasers at point-blank range the Enterprise would've been destroyed and he wouldn't have had a chance to let Kirk "know who had beaten him". Sadly it seems that many Star Trek episodes and movies afterwards consider this a full-power battle and missed that detail from Khan. :(

Good call. Also, Khan wanted the Genesis data.
 
The HMS Hood was destroyed by one (possibly two) hits from the Bismarck.

...Yet her crew mostly drowned. So why would the crew of the Excalibur die when their ship does? Hull breaches would have to amount to vastly more than the ones that rapidly sank the Hood, if loss of air were to be the reason of death.

Radiation from phaser hits, and a jolt without inertia-nullifier protection, are good and solid treknology candidates for the deaths. We just need a bit of additional evidence that big phasers can kill via radiation; the pulping-with-impact thing is already well established elsewhere.

The other possibility is that the crew did not die. When Commodore Wesley tells Kirk twelve died, he has no reason for lying. But he never says everybody died; he twice says that some died, which basically establishes that everybody did not.

But M-5 does not fire on the ship after Wesley's second comment, about just "CO and XO" being dead, with "many casualties". So when Kirk tells it to scan for life and see if it sees any, how come it sees none?

Kirk wants M-5 to see no life. Did he somehow manage to achieve that outcome even when most of the crew is alive? Might be as simple as the crew abandoning ship; the computer is too insane at the time to consider such things, while for Kirk this would be a simple matter of procedure and training, but also another way in which he trumps a computer as a starship commander.

Timo Saloniemi
 
You can't just ignore things you don't like. That's unfair for the people arguing who do like it.

It's true I don't like it, but that's not why I'd argue to exclude it from the discussion. TWOK came out 13 years after the last TOS episode, and is completely inconsistent with TOS in a lot of critical ways. Constraining the discussion to TOS at least gives us a base to work from.

Anyway, you're welcome to include TWOK in your theories, and I'm happy to exclude it in mine. :)
 
Speaking of "came decades after", we don't know what Kirk destroyed in "Errand of Mercy", not unless we evoke the "-R".

In "Day of the Dove", the battlecruiser essentially blows up all on its own.

Timo Saloniemi
 
TWOK clearly happens in an alternate universe, one where ships move at about 100 miles per hour, and where weapons that could once destroy "half a continent" are about as effective as cannonballs, even against unshielded ships.

So, disregarding TWOK (please, let's disregard TWOK), phasers are damned powerful weapons, as blssdwlf notes, able to blow up stuff at a distance of tens of thousands of kilometers. It also seems that ship's shields don't fully block a shot (since the Excalibur was losing people before the final hit). So, to Whales' point, I like the idea of that last blast hitting a critical component such that the environment of the ship no longer supports life. Life support going out wouldn't kill everyone immediately, but lethal radiation would. Inertial compensators, too, although I'd think that would fling the ship apart, too.
I would agree with the others in this thread who has stated that Khan's first attack on the Enterprise in Star Trek II The Wrath of Khan was explicitly to disable and not to destroy.

Khan even states that on his first pass he deprived the ship of power and on the second pass, he plans to deprive Kirk of his life, and as others have already said specifically States: " I wanted you to know who had beaten you..."

If Khan had wanted, with the 1701 Shields down, Khan could have totally destroyed the 1701 with the first pass of the Reliant.

As for the Second Battle in the nebula, both ships were still heavily damaged prior to that engagement and haven't had a chance to fully repair themselves. Spock states they only have partial Main Power, and on the Reliant only impulse power is restored. Khan even makes the comment: "...More than a match for poor Enterprise..."; but yeah, both ships are still in very bad operating condition to begin with.

So yeah nothing from Star Trek II The Wrath of Khan really shows what a fully powered Starship commanded by a Captain whose intent from the first shot is to completely destroy the enemy vessel.

That's the major difference between that film and the S2 episode The Ultimate Computer. And in the latter we have a commanding artificial intelligence whose soul intent in attacking the four ships is to utterly destroy them to defend itself.
 
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