The REAL reason that Kes isn't a more beloved character...

[Lynx]

I actually started to say that maybe they cared enough about their actress to allow her to change her character's appearance for the sake of her own health...

Then I remembered Seven's skintight torture suit.

I think it was more about "Oh, we could use another glue to fix her ears which is not creating allergic problems. But that's too expensive!"

In fact, they didn't care about anything except their own wallets.

Oh, that Harry!

Think about how his character would have blossomed on DS9, a show where character development was a staple rather than a no-no.

And Chakotay's.

And Kes's.

I wish that they would have found a way to transfer Kes to DS9, maybe trough a wormhole or so.

What a joy it would have been with my Top 3 favorite characters in the same series!

certainly could have taken his ship onboard, with their infinite-capacity clown-car shuttlebays. But, Wix grabbed his ship and scampered before they could make the offer.

Ah, they could have changed that so Wix could have joined the crew!

certainly are times when you wonder what they were thinking...

Honestly, they were times when I wondered what they were on, especially when they came up with all the crap about the Ocampa, like the nine-year lifespan, the one-child syndrome, the mating process and all that.

 

[Oddish]

The one-child thing wasn't there originally, since Kes had an uncle (not possible with one kid per family). They probably just dumped it in without thinking.

I can only imagine what they would have done with Kes on DS9... probably something a lot like B&A in terms of character development. That episode pretty much indicated what Voyager would have been like without the endless reset button spamming.

 

[Lynx]

The one-child thing wasn't there originally, since Kes had an uncle (not possible with one kid per family). They probably just dumped it in without thinking.

I can only imagine what they would have done with Kes on DS9... probably something a lot like B&A in terms of character development. That episode pretty much indicated what Voyager would have been like without the endless reset button spamming.

Kes mentioning her uncle was interesting. That's when I started to think that the Ocampa might have multiple children.

I also remember Kes's father saying something to Kes about her being his "favorite daughter". Maybe Kes had sisters!

As for the scenario in Before And After, I don't like that scenario. Too much doom-and-gloom and deaths in that one.

If Kes had been a DS9 character, they wold probably not have come up with the nine-year lifespan at all since it was silly and limiting for the character.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Kes mentioning her uncle was interesting. That's when I started to think that the Ocampa might have multiple children.

I also remember Kes's father saying something to Kes about her being his "favorite daughter". Maybe Kes had sisters!

As for the scenario in Before And After, I don't like that scenario. Too much doom-and-gloom and deaths in that one.

If Kes had been a DS9 character, they wold probably not have come up with the nine-year lifespan at all since it was silly and limiting for the character.

Sisko would have "died" on the same day.

Gave terminal Kes a a kiss on the forehead on her bio bed, then off to the fire caves.

Avery & Jennifer were in American History X together.

Maybe they talked about it?

 

[Oddish]

As for the scenario in Before And After, I don't like that scenario. Too much doom-and-gloom and deaths in that one.

I didn't say it was ideal. Just that it featured a scenario where the characters had developed instead of stagnating.

Kes had been a DS9 character, they wold probably not have come up with the nine-year lifespan at all since it was silly and limiting for the character.

Maybe not. But if they had, they would have found a way to make it mean something.

 

[at Quark's]

Kes mentioning her uncle was interesting. That's when I started to think that the Ocampa might have multiple children.

I also remember Kes's father saying something to Kes about her being his "favorite daughter". Maybe Kes had sisters!

As for the scenario in Before And After, I don't like that scenario. Too much doom-and-gloom and deaths in that one.

If Kes had been a DS9 character, they wold probably not have come up with the nine-year lifespan at all since it was silly and limiting for the character.

Well, Elogium doesn't say the Ocampa only have one child. It says the Elogium occurs only once. Perhaps they usually give birth to twins, triplets, or even higher numbers, a single birth (as we see in Before and After) being relatively rare.

Assuming that would be the case, perhaps Kes didn't mention that particular oddity to Neelix (and kept talking in single child terms), to not scare him off even more

 

[Oddish]

I actually theorize that the Elogium is an Ocampa women's first chance at motherhood. If she opts out, she can't have children, ever. If she opts in, she can have more children after the first.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Well, Elogium doesn't say the Ocampa only have one child. It says the Elogium occurs only once. Perhaps they usually give birth to twins, triplets, or even higher numbers, a single birth (as we see in Before and After) being relatively rare.

Assuming that would be the case, perhaps Kes didn't mention that particular oddity to Neelix (and kept talking in single child terms), to not scare him off even more

The Elogium was an interesting plot for Kes and her race but I'm not sure we needed to see it happening to Kes. I'd rather the crew encounter another female Ocampa who is going through this phase and Kes witnessing it to that character. The question for the story could be did something altered Kes' cycle because she left the planet; something for the crew to be prepared for in future seasons. I don't think the episode we saw worked IMO.

 

[fireproof78]

I think it was more about "Oh, we could use another glue to fix her ears which is not creating allergic problems. But that's too expensive!"

In fact, they didn't care about anything except their own wallets.

Yes, why wouldn't they? I never understand this complaint. Prosthetics are expensive, producing them, molding them, and having them endure takes time and effort. How much money is to invested in to changing it for one actor, when the rest are responding very well? Sorry, I'm all about saving money, and I don't know why producers would be any different...

 

[Oddish]

Nothing wrong with a character changing their hairstyle anyway. I think the only long-term female character who didn't change hairstyles was Dax. And Worf and Sisko changed theirs as well.

 

[Lynx]

Nothing wrong with a character changing their hairstyle anyway. I think the only long-term female character who didn't change hairstyles was Dax. And Worf and Sisko changed theirs as well.

Only fools change what is perfect!

And Kes's hairstyle was perfect!

I've always been against "change for the sake of changing" because it will never turn out well.

Yes, why wouldn't they? I never understand this complaint. Prosthetics are expensive, producing them, molding them, and having them endure takes time and effort. How much money is to invested in to changing it for one actor, when the rest are responding very well? Sorry, I'm all about saving money, and I don't know why producers would be any different...

They could at least have tried.
There have probably been similar things with prosthetics in other series and movies which haven't required a radical change in the appearance of a character.
Not to mention that they were known for their greed.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Nothing wrong with a character changing their hairstyle anyway. I think the only long-term female character who didn't change hairstyles was Dax. And Worf and Sisko changed theirs as well.

Jadzia had several variations of the ponytail and she did sport a very interesting hairstyle in the two parter "The Search".

 

[psCargile]

This should have been a Late Night with David Lettermen Top Ten List.

 

[Oddish]

Only fools change what is perfect!

And Kes's hairstyle was perfect!

I've always been against "change for the sake of changing" because it will never turn out well.

Some people also liked Janeway's Bun of Steel or Sisko with hair. Remember that, like Kes's different look, Sisko's iconic bald head/beard look came to be at the request of the actor. I think it's good that they let the actors have a say in how their characters looked.

 

[Guy Gardener]

What Birth control was Neelix using?

1. Something like condoms? Then he's good to go and make a baby during Elogium. But if she's only fertile during a a specific mating season, why is Neelix wearing a love glove when he's boffing out of season? Are they in an open relationship, is he cheating on her, or does Kes still have a Kazon STD the Doctor can't figure out how to get rid of?

2. A monthly shot in the ass, like what Sisko forgot to get, then he'll be shooting blanks for six days while their hands are glued together. Maybe the shot is human specific, or it's just not for talaxians, but if Neelix asked the Doctor to make him a contraceptive shot, how long would it take? A week or two if he dedicated all his run time to the job?\

3. Neelix doesn't use contraceptives. He makes babies. He makes babies but "he's never thought about being a father" before. What an amazing person!

4. They don't bang. They never banged, and they never will bang. Hell they don't even sleep in the same bed. Different quarters.

 

[STEPhon IT]

This was something I thought VOY truly dropped the ball about sexual interpretations, like "Death Wish" I couldn't believe when Q made an advance on GOAT Janeway she automatically assumed like a 20th Century feminist that it would be done or treated in a humanoid sexual way. When it could be something which was... you know... ALIEN. Aliens from outer space do not have to depict the necessity of procreation like a pornographic video; it can be depicted like TMP when Decker and Ilia/V'Ger performed in the climax: a visual interpretation of how plants procreate. How Neelix and Kes had their affair is irrelevant but if the question needs to exist then I say open your imaginations a bit, lifeforms on Earth have different variations of it other than homos sapiens, I would expect it to be no less for extraterrestrials in the outer reaches of deep space.

 

[fireproof78]

They could at least have tried.
There have probably been similar things with prosthetics in other series and movies which haven't required a radical change in the appearance of a character.
Not to mention that they were known for their greed.

And how much time and money shall they invest? Prosthetics are not simple. They have to endure being on for hours at a time, under hot lights and human movement. Ears have always been a struggle for Trek so researching something that could perform the function that might not cause a reaction may simply not have been cost effective. Especially if the materials were even more expensive, or required other handling.

Nothing wrong with a character changing their hairstyle anyway. I think the only long-term female character who didn't change hairstyles was Dax. And Worf and Sisko changed theirs as well.

It's almost like people like to change their hairstyle from time to time.

Not me. But, other people do. Or so I hear.

 

[Lynx]

This was something I thought VOY truly dropped the ball about sexual interpretations, like "Death Wish" I couldn't believe when Q made an advance on GOAT Janeway she automatically assumed like a 20th Century feminist that it would be done or treated in a humanoid sexual way. When it could be something which was... you know... ALIEN. Aliens from outer space do not have to depict the necessity of procreation like a pornographic video; it can be depicted like TMP when Decker and Ilia/V'Ger performed in the climax: a visual interpretation of how plants procreate. How Neelix and Kes had their affair is irrelevant but if the question needs to exist then I say open your imaginations a bit, lifeforms on Earth have different variations of it other than homos sapiens, I would expect it to be no less for extraterrestrials in the outer reaches of deep space.

Sometimes they just make the extraterrestials too human in Star Trek.

 

[Oddish]

Sometimes they just make the extraterrestials too human in Star Trek.

Probably because Star Trek is really about the human condition.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

You all keep talking about Kes and Neelix getting it on, you get a visual. Them's the rules. I'm sorry I had to do this, but you brought it on yourselves.