Spoilers Season 2 Trailers, Previews, and Promos

[fireproof78]

Okay. That's fine. But of course it's not that simple.

Because of course when it's a Star Trek show about a retired, 94 year-old Jean-Luc Picard it makes perfect sense to me for him to be on Earth.

What makes no sense to me is a retired, 94 year-old Jean-Luc Picard risking his life flying around in space on adventures. That's stupid to me. Because I would ask why would Picard do that?

Just like it would be stupid to me if Riker and Deanna Troi and Kestra went risking their lives flying around in space on adventures. It would be like what in the hell are they doing?

If it's a life or death situation or whatever, okay fine, what Picard did makes sense. But that's a one-time occurrence. And anything other than that then why are you doing this? And if they have to come up with some other life or death situation the requires Picard to go flying around in space on an adventure, risking his life, and that Rios and the gang, and only Rios and the gang are the ones that Picard has to go to, then that's a stupid show to me.

Hopefully that's not the scenario in season two. And hopefully the addition of Q makes that not the scenario for season two.

Of course, the bigger question is: why was there a Picard show in the first place? I understand the nostalgia factor, but the show kind of has to make sense too.

Because Picard wants to. As Kirk would say "Because it's there." It doesn't need to be more than that for me.

Mileage will vary. I don't need more than that though.

 

[dupersuper]

Yes, it's called Star Trek. It's just silly to me to have a character of Picard's age still flying around in space.

It's the 24th century: average human lifespans of well over a century, and usually in better health.

LD = Today's Trek spoofing Yesterday's Trek

But lovingly.

Discovery action. Strange New Worlds exploring. And Picard talking.

That's what I want, and so that's why I hope they have Picard stay on Earth.

This makes sense, yes?

I mean, you can talk fine in a spaceship: Kirk, Picard et al have given great speeches and held innumerable board meetings in them.

 

[Isaac Lawrence]

Because Picard wants to. As Kirk would say "Because it's there." It doesn't need to be more than that for me.

Mileage will vary. I don't need more than that though.

If you're an active member of Starfleet, then "Because it's there" as a reason is fine.

Of course, Picard wanted to do what he did for a specific reason. And the reason why he did do it made sense in the context of the story that they wanted to tell. And that reason to do what he did was not just because. And now that's it's done, and now that he's had nice closure with Data, now where do we go from here... ?

That's what I'm talking about. He completed his reason for doing something crazy... and I thought they were going to stretch that out for two seasons and end the show there, but they wrapped it up in one. Now they kind of have to reset the show and do something else.

Also, I guess Kirk may have risked his life after he retired, and at an old age decided to fly around the galaxy just for the sake of adventure. That may have kind of fit his character. But even for Kirk to do something like that would have been kind of weird to me.

When we see Seven of Nine in Picard and learn that she joined some Fenris Rangers vigilante group or whatever, that's fine. She was a ridiculous character, so for her to be doing something equally ridiculous now is fine.

That was a joke by the way... like her character was. And still joking.

No, but given who her character was, when we meet up with her again, then doing what's she's been doing makes perfect sense. Her flying around the galaxy putting her life at risk for her cause makes perfect sense.

Picard though that's just straight up wacky for him to continue to do something like that.

If he had a just reason for doing something life-threatening (or something that was threatening the galaxy), then he would just simply go to the Federation and tell them about it and they would handle it. And if they rejected it and forced him to go it alone, then obviously the writers are doing the stupid thing that they've already just done.

Moreover, I mean, Kirk would beam down to a planet because he was crazy like that. Picard was like, "No, I'm sending my Number One."

Anyway, obviously I'm not talking about Star Trek in the most general sense when I'm talking about Picard. No, I'm talking about a specific character, in a specific situation, and at a specific point in his life. Which is what the set up of the show is...

It's the 24th century: average human lifespans of well over a century, and usually in better health.

I mean, you can talk fine in a spaceship: Kirk, Picard et al have given great speeches and held innumerable board meetings in them.

You do realize you're leaving out the context of what I said, right?

Why you intentionally did that I have no idea, but anyway.

Anyway, no, it's obviously not simply about his age, it's about the circumstances and reasons for doing something life-threatening at his age.

The reason why he did what he did in the first season was fine. The reason to continue to do that though strains credulity for me.

Just like it would again be ridiculous to me for Riker and Deanna and their daughter to suddenly become adventurers and travel the galaxy.

What Riker and the family were doing in Picard made perfect sense. Of course, what they were doing may not make for much of a show, but such is life. You do your adventuring, and then you settle into a more normal life.

Or for Geordi to do something like that, to become an adventurer and travel the galaxy. That would be like, "What?"

Overall, the show has a tough job to do. What do you do with a retired, 94 year-old guy?

Yes, you can do one last hurrah... which is what they just did. Okay, now what do you do?

Time? And throw in an extra-dimensional being? Okay, talking time with an extra-dimensional being is a perfectly reasonable thing to me for a retired, 94 year-old guy to be doing.

Also, we've kind of beaten this death, right.

Of course I am right in all of this, so we can just leave it there and move on.

(And that was a joke. Kind of like how a show about a retired, 94 year-old space adventurer would be... )

 

[fireproof78]

Some people live for adventures. Don't care about the age. It isn't silly.

 

[Isaac Lawrence]

Some people live for adventures. Don't care about the age. It isn't silly.

Well, yeah, we're not talking in the abstract here (or at least I'm not). And I'm not talking about "some people."

No, I'm talking about a specific person, and at a specific point in his life.

What Picard did in the first season was because of Dahji and then Soji and their connection to Data. That's why he risked his life and ultimately died. Now that that chapter has closure, and he's been brought back to life...

No, but the man could barely run up a flight of stairs... because he's 94 years-old. And he risked his like because of someone who was important to him: Data.

Now that that's resolved, what would be the reason for him to risk his life now? For who, or for what? And why wouldn't Starfleet help him this time around? What would be their reason not to help him and force Picard to go back to Rios (and get the gang back together) and ask for his help by flying him around in his ship?

That's the quandary that the writers are now in...

Looking at the teaser information that's been released so far, it looks to me as though they're setting something up that doesn't paint themselves into that silly corner that I described above.

Of course, I assume they were never going to do a similar scenario in season two that they did in season one anyway, so this whole discussion in and of itself is rather silly, but whatever.

Also, of course, at the end of the day nothing has changed, because based on the released teaser information, I'm still guessing and hoping that they set this season on Earth for the most part. Because anything other than that would be silly to me (and never mind the teaser information, but just from a story telling standpoint). And I imagine I haven't changed anyone's mind who disagrees with that...

So hopefully we're at an end for this.

 

[fireproof78]

Now that that's resolved, what would be the reason for him to risk his life now?

Because he spent years isolating himself. He missed out and wants back in on the action. He also is shepherding Soji, who is connected to Data. There are many reasons for him to do so.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Because he spent years isolating himself. He missed out and wants back in on the action.

This. Out traveling the stars is where Picard always belonged, and he wasted too many years not following his calling.

 

[Isaac Lawrence]

Because he spent years isolating himself. He missed out and wants back in on the action. He also is shepherding Soji, who is connected to Data. There are many reasons for him to do so.

You know what's somewhat regretful about this entire exercise for me, and pleasant and freeing at the same time?

The somewhat regretful part is just like that I went from being really hopeful about this season because I desperately want to like the show, back to not caring about it again.

Because I liked roughly 30% of the first season and disliked the other 70%. And by the end the only characters that I liked were Picard and Raffi, and Laris and Zhaban (but of course those two were nowhere to be seen for 70% of the season). So it was already on shaky ground with me. And I'm trying to convince myself that they're going to totally change the show and make it what I want to see.

You and others of course continue to tell me, "No, they're not going to change a thing."

You know what, you're probably right. They're probably not going to change a thing. And I'm probably going to hate 70% or more of the show again. Because the entire underlying premise of the show is going to continue to be silly to me, and so they will inevitably do things that I think are stupid. So I'm not going to even bother.

I don't know why I tried to talk myself into it and try and see it otherwise, but I did.

So you win. I'm done. Picard is lumped back in with the rest of 90s Trek and back on my ignore list.

The pleasant and freeing part about this, and what I feel really good about, is that it was kind of hard for me to reconcile Picard with Discovery and Strange New Worlds in my own personal head canon.

Discovery and Strange New Worlds fit perfectly with one another because Strange New Worlds is obviously a spin-off of Discovery. Picard was the oddball in all of this. And that's because it's part of the old Trek that I don't like, but I still wanted to fit it in with the new stuff that I do like.

But ultimately that is a mistake. Because when you have to try so hard to talk yourself into liking something, that usually doesn't work out in the end. Trying to tell yourself, "Well, if they don't do this, but do the other thing instead, then okay... "

No, usually you like something right away, and trying to fit that square peg into the round hole never really works.

So yep, that was fun. And now it's done. (And I wasn't trying to rhyme there, but whatever.)

 

[WarpFactorZ]

This. Out traveling the stars is where Picard always belonged, and he wasted too many years not following his calling.

Which was also the take home message from his brother in "Family", so it's not like this is a new thing!

 

[Boris Skrbic]

But TFA started the thing of putting legacy characters where we’d never expect them to be so they could claw their way back to a semblance of the ideal (as opposed to leaving those characters with their Gene’s Vision endings and focusing on new characters with new paths).

 

[ThreeEdgedSword]

For the record, I'd be fine with a season on Earth and the title of the franchise shouldn't matter. I can imagine SF-stuff happening on Earth, in Starfleet HQ or wherever. But to not want Picard in space when he himself feels he wasted his life, or rather didn't really live, there, I don't get. Yes, he's old. So what.

The things they need to fix have little to do with the setting imho...

 

[fireproof78]

But ultimately that is a mistake. Because when you have to try so hard to talk yourself into liking something, that usually doesn't work out in the end. Trying to tell yourself, "Well, if they don't do this, but do the other thing instead, then okay... "

This is the biggest part about Star Trek that I made peace with since TNG. Trying to force enjoyment is rarely successful.

 

[DarrenTR1970]

Real world example - my mom is seventy-five and her husband is eighty-three. They both lived and worked for almost thirty years at the Vail Ski Resort until retiring two years ago. They moved back to Washington state, bought a house, and fully intended on staying retired and traveling. Last fall, the resort called and asked if they wanted to come back and work for the season because they were shorted handed due to COVID. Mom and Wink said, 'Yes', because they realized that they were bored and as long as they could continue doing what they loved doing there was no sense in them sitting around the house all day.

 

[fireproof78]

My biggest thing is simply the artificial limit of being a certain age means you cannot do something.

 

[Isaac Lawrence]

My biggest thing is simply the artificial limit of being a certain age means you cannot do something.

I hate to jump back into this, but that obviously was not my issue at all.

No, my issue was why would Picard, who had a full and celebrated career in a profession where you put your life at risk... why would he un-retire and go and voluntary put his life back at risk.

In season one they obviously came up with a scenario where that was the only option that he had. And it was for very personal reasons. And of course they had to do it that way otherwise they had no show. Because once he told Starfleet what he had learned, then Starfleet would have handled it, and Picard would have gone back to the chateau and that would have been it.

So it was never about just doing anything. No, it was always about doing something, at a certain stage of your life, that could get you killed... when theoretically there should have been plenty of other options.

One time going back out and risk getting yourself killed (in which ultimately did happen) is one thing. And you again had to do that otherwise you really had no reason to do the show.

Now for that to happen again. Something the dire comes up, you tell Starfleet again, they say no again, and so you have to go it alone again... that's where it gets silly to me.

Of course, I assume they're not going to do that again, because that would be ridiculous. But that was the entire crux of what I was talking about. That I would hope that they wouldn't do something that ridiculous again.

Either way, I don't really care what they do because there's so much in the show that's problematic to me anyway. But just to clarify what I was talking about... even though I thought it was clear.

The entire premise of the show's existence I think is silly. But, y'know, whatever, that's what they wanted to do, so be it. It's not the end of the world. A Star Trek show with what I think is a silly premise is not the end of the world.

 

[fireproof78]

No, my issue was why would Picard, who had a full and celebrated career in a profession where you put your life at risk... why would he un-retire and go and voluntary put his life back at risk.

And I answered that as well. I find both to be problematic and artificial limiters. Yes, I know we keep going back and forth and obviously this will be an agree to disagree moment. But, Picard voluntarily took himself out of the game. He was depressed, he isolated away from the place where he could, as Kirk would say, "make a difference." Why would he choose to go back? Because that is where he feels the most fulfilled. He tried the vineyard life and it didn't suit him. And it never has.

 

[Isaac Lawrence]

And I answered that as well. I find both to be problematic and artificial limiters. Yes, I know we keep going back and forth and obviously this will be an agree to disagree moment. But, Picard voluntarily took himself out of the game. He was depressed, he isolated away from the place where he could, as Kirk would say, "make a difference." Why would he choose to go back? Because that is where he feels the most fulfilled. He tried the vineyard life and it didn't suit him. And it never has.

Please answer me this: a specific, not an abstract...

Again, something else dire comes up, Picard goes to Starfleet about it, Starfleet says no again, and Picard is forced to go it alone again.

Is that something that would make sense to you?

Because again, that's what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about in the abstract or in the most general sense. I'm talking in the specific.

If that specific scenario makes sense to you, they we'll just agree to disagree.

Speaking of the first season and something that would have made sense to me, would be if Picard had went straight to Riker after Starfleet said no (and of course Starfleet saying no in the first place is the main cause in all of this this; but of course they have to say no for there to be a show). But say Picard tells Riker about it and asked him to help rally to his cause. And Riker would have obviously said yes and things would have been done differently and not been as eye-roll inducing to me.

Or better yet, say Picard called for another interview (or maybe a press conference about that last interview) to address his leaving Starfleet. And would have revealed what new information he just learned, and what really happened to him when he went to Starfleet Archives, and what Starfleet is doing about all of it and make a big issue about it that way.

That would have been really to cool to me, and would have totally made sense for a 94 year-old retired person to do.

But, y'know, whatever. Do that... or call up your last Number One and go and fly on a ship with a bunch of people that you never met before and put your life at risk. One or the other.

Also, I guess I should really stop stop thinking about this show, because Picard specifically said that he didn't want to ask Riker or Worf or Geordi for help, because they would help him. And they would put their lives on the line out of loyalty to him, and he doesn't want to go through that again. But these other people that he's never met before... yeah sure, and he apparently doesn't have much of any problem with these total strangers putting their lives on the line. And he has no idea how they would react if things go bad, but he'll still totally put his life in their hands.

Yes, I should really stop thinking about this show.

But no, please just answer me that specific: something dire comes up, Picard goes to Starfleet again, they say no again, so he's gotta go and do it by myself again.

If that makes sense to you, then we'll just agree to disagree. Because that's what I'm talking about and that's all that I've been talking about.

 

[fireproof78]

Please answer me this: a specific, not an abstract...

Again, something else dire comes up, Picard goes to Starfleet about it, Starfleet says no again, and Picard is forced to go it alone again.

Is that something that would make sense to you?

Because again, that's what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about in the abstract or in the most general sense. I'm talking in the specific.

If that specific scenario makes sense to you, they we'll just agree to disagree.

Speaking of the first season and something that would have made sense to me, would be if Picard had went straight to Riker after Starfleet said no (and of course Starfleet saying no in the first place is the main cause in all of this this; but of course they have to say no for there to be a show). But say Picard tells Riker about it and asked him to help rally to his cause. And Riker would have obviously said yes and things would have been done differently and not been as eye-roll inducing to me.

Or better yet, say Picard called for another interview (or maybe a press conference about that last interview) to address his leaving Starfleet. And would have revealed what new information he just learned, and what really happened to him when he went to Starfleet Archives, and what Starfleet is doing about all of it and make a big issue about it that way.

That would have been really to cool to me, and would have totally made sense for a 94 year-old retired person to do.

But, y'know, whatever. Do that... or call up your last Number One and go and fly on a ship with a bunch of people that you never met before and put your life at risk. One or the other.

Also, I guess I should really stop stop thinking about this show, because Picard specifically said that he didn't want to ask Riker or Worf or Geordi for help, because they would help him. And they would put their lives on the line out of loyalty to him, and he doesn't want to go through that again. But these other people that he's never met before... yeah sure, and he apparently doesn't have much of any problem with these total strangers putting their lives on the line. And he has no idea how they would react if things go bad, but he'll still totally put his life in their hands.

Yes, I should really stop thinking about this show.

But no, please just answer me that specific: something dire comes up, Picard goes to Starfleet again, they say no again, so he's gotta go and do it by myself again.

If that makes sense to you, then we'll just agree to disagree. Because that's what I'm talking about and that's all that I've been talking about.

Yes, it makes sense to me. That makes sense for the character of Picard as presented in the past.

You said 94 year old Picard so you'll forgive me if I felt it was pushing an ageist idea that once you hit this age you don't do risky things. That to me is BS.

Picard in season 1 is dealing with clinical depression, and failing Erikson's final stage of development. His response makes perfect sense to me.

Agree to disagree, etc, etc.

 

[The Old Mixer]

No, my issue was why would Picard, who had a full and celebrated career in a profession where you put your life at risk... why would he un-retire and go and voluntary put his life back at risk.

Because that full and celebrated career was cut unexpectedly short, and that activity that puts his life at risk was what he always most enjoyed.

The guy didn't just retire because it was time to retire; he put in his resignation as a tactic and Starfleet called his bluff.

 

[Isaac Lawrence]

Because that full and celebrated career was cut unexpectedly short, and that activity that puts his life at risk was what he always most enjoyed.

The guy didn't just retire because it was time to retire; he put in his resignation as a tactic and Starfleet called his bluff.

Then why didn't he just go and find some pilot with a ship to go fly him around the galaxy so he could go on adventures doing stuff?

Answer: because that would be a moronic thing for Jean-Luc Picard to do... in my opinion, at least.

Now, he had decided to go back to Starfleet, then okay, fine, whatever. I guess at some point though he wouldn't have been granted clearance for interstellar service because of his developing condition, but I guess they would have come up with some story reason to make that go away or whatever. Or wouldn't have introduced it in the first place.

Yes, it makes sense to me. That makes sense for the character of Picard as presented in the past.

You said 94 year old Picard so you'll forgive me if I felt it was pushing an ageist idea that once you hit this age you don't do risky things. That to me is BS.

Picard in season 1 is dealing with clinical depression, and failing Erikson's final stage of development. His response makes perfect sense to me.

Agree to disagree, etc, etc.

Well yes, age was an issue brought up in the show.

Dr. Benayoun told Picard that he was at minimum levels required for Starfleet, and that he had a terminal condition, so he wasn't going to clear him for interstellar service. So age was an issue that was introduced in the show. That's why I brought it up.

But I also said that I thought it would be stupid for Riker and his family to go flying around galaxy risking their lives. That would make no sense to me either.

I also said that I thought it would be stupid if Geordi went flying around the galaxy risking his life.

Now, if you're in Starfleet doing that, then okay, fine. That makes sense. But if you're a private citizen doing that, then what in the hell are you doing?

Also, yes, in season 1 for Picard to do that is fine. Or rather, that was whole premise and story reason for doing the show. So no, personally that makes no sense at all to me. But in the context of the show they wrote it in such a way that it was the only option. So whatever.

For them to do that again in season 2... then that is ridiculous to me and makes no sense.

You apparently don't think it would be, so we'll agree to disagree.

Last, I would ask to please not reference what I said again about this. Because the only reason I went back into this was because you said...

My biggest thing is simply the artificial limit of being a certain age means you cannot do something.

...and that is not at all what I was talking about.

So I just wanted to clarify that. And now that you understand that, we're done... again (because I said the other day "you win, I give up." So we're done again, and you win... again).