La Sirena

[Timo]

If Rios was making his living running cargo, where was he putting the cargo? It's gotten me thinking that he was operating more outside accepted commercial cargo laws. Has there been more details released regarding Rios' history with La Sirena? Or details regarding the history of the ship itself?

Since Freecloud Control identifies Rios' ship by type as a "freighter" or "speed freighter", apparently without addressing user modifications, we really have to ask where the average operator of this ship type puts the freight.

A large portion of internal volume is taken by the already seen spaces, and the two-level center area is a perfectly fine cargo hold for the types of Federation cargo crates and containers so far seen, as well as for general goods. This area is served by the transporter pad and by four doors, one on each side on each level. This might well suffice for the "freighter" needs; we could then assume Rios added the cabins that flank the upper level (and apparently feature extensive holotechnology, so that the starboard cabin is a French vineyard and the two portside cabins overlap spatially), thus slightly reducing the available cargo space.

If the lower stern doors are supposed to be involved in cargo loading, too, we then have to further assume that the sickbay is a late Rios addition, too, as it now blocks access from astern. The stern doors might be for accessing Engineering or Fuel Tanks or whatever, though. But if they are cargo doors, we may further speculate that not only are they wide enough to allow for vehicular access, they may be served by a tractor beam crane that is projected and controlled from the fixtures above the door. Indeed, unless the landing gear is good at kneeling (and the side pods of the ship can be hinged up), ground access of any of the three lower doors would call for ramps that may not even be included in the structure of the ship itself and have to be provided by the port facilities - or then tractor beam assistance.

But kneeling landing gear is definitely an option, and the side pods certainly look as if they could be hinged (although only the outer pods have truly obvious hinges).

External stowage of cargo might be something that calls for these fancy prongs forward and aft; we see such prongs in many a pirate ship, and prongs or claws in Ferengi ships, all of which might be assumed to deal with externally handled loot...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[AlexMC]

This might well suffice for the "freighter" needs; we could then assume Rios added the cabins that flank the upper level (and apparently feature extensive holotechnology, so that the starboard cabin is a French vineyard and the two portside cabins overlap spatially), thus slightly reducing the available cargo space.

To be fair, they make it pretty clear that Picard's study is actually a holodeck, not one of the usual cabins. At least that's how it's treated in the show (Picard leaves the study in episode 4 saying he'll be in his quarters) and what all the behind the scenes materials say.

This area is served by the transporter pad and by four doors, one on each side on each level.

I still don't think those are doors, really. They're referred to as panorama windows in some behind the scenes materials. On the upper level, there are rails around the cut-outs in front of these windows, so you can't access them even when the shutters are up. And on the lower level, there are cargo nets in front of the windows and they haphazardly put down some planks to be able to leave through there after the Coppelius crash (on top of the issue you already mentioned about the distance from the ground). So to me it seems like those are windows and possibly some form of escape hatch that can be used as a door in an emergency, but they don't seem to me like the main doors. I agree that those would be the large doors at the back of the ship.

 

[Donnewtype]

Since Freecloud Control identifies Rios' ship by type as a "freighter" or "speed freighter", apparently without addressing user modifications, we really have to ask where the average operator of this ship type puts the freight.

A large portion of internal volume is taken by the already seen spaces, and the two-level center area is a perfectly fine cargo hold for the types of Federation cargo crates and containers so far seen, as well as for general goods. This area is served by the transporter pad and by four doors, one on each side on each level. This might well suffice for the "freighter" needs; we could then assume Rios added the cabins that flank the upper level (and apparently feature extensive holotechnology, so that the starboard cabin is a French vineyard and the two portside cabins overlap spatially), thus slightly reducing the available cargo space.

If the lower stern doors are supposed to be involved in cargo loading, too, we then have to further assume that the sickbay is a late Rios addition, too, as it now blocks access from astern. The stern doors might be for accessing Engineering or Fuel Tanks or whatever, though. But if they are cargo doors, we may further speculate that not only are they wide enough to allow for vehicular access, they may be served by a tractor beam crane that is projected and controlled from the fixtures above the door. Indeed, unless the landing gear is good at kneeling (and the side pods of the ship can be hinged up), ground access of any of the three lower doors would call for ramps that may not even be included in the structure of the ship itself and have to be provided by the port facilities - or then tractor beam assistance.

But kneeling landing gear is definitely an option, and the side pods certainly look as if they could be hinged (although only the outer pods have truly obvious hinges).

External stowage of cargo might be something that calls for these fancy prongs forward and aft; we see such prongs in many a pirate ship, and prongs or claws in Ferengi ships, all of which might be assumed to deal with externally handled loot...

Timo Saloniemi

Good ideas Timo, though I never thought of the outer pods as hinged. The open main hull seems to be good for small and medium sized crated stuff along with people. I think Rios has dealt with the "two passengers, a pair of droids and no Imperial, sorry, Federation interference." type of cargo, but I can't see larger shipping containers or palatized pods. Playing around with shapes and space I got a cargo bay fitted into the rear of the ship that also leaves space behind the medical/lab. This is hinted at with the ladder leading down from left of the warp core. Shown here:

and here:

Maybe in season 2 we'll see get to see that rear section of the ship; the ladder has to go somewhere.
I'll post what I worked out as possible deck arrangements in my La Sirena thread.

Don.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Maybe the outter hinged pylons can swing down and clamp onto a standardized adapter plate for something bigger or a small cargo container for direct attachment.

 

[Timo]

To be fair, they make it pretty clear that Picard's study is actually a holodeck, not one of the usual cabins. At least that's how it's treated in the show (Picard leaves the study in episode 4 saying he'll be in his quarters) and what all the behind the scenes materials say.

Quite. But I'd like to further postulate that Rios' and Musiker's cabins are holodecks, too - after all, it's a bit of a theme that things aboard the ship that one would expect to be real turn out not to be (most of the Rioses, say!).

I still don't think those are doors, really. They're referred to as panorama windows in some behind the scenes materials. On the upper level, there are rails around the cut-outs in front of these windows, so you can't access them even when the shutters are up. And on the lower level, there are cargo nets in front of the windows and they haphazardly put down some planks to be able to leave through there after the Coppelius crash (on top of the issue you already mentioned about the distance from the ground). So to me it seems like those are windows and possibly some form of escape hatch that can be used as a door in an emergency, but they don't seem to me like the main doors. I agree that those would be the large doors at the back of the ship.

Yup. I'd just like to argue that main exit doors are something you would wish to block for most of the time, whether at sea or in space, for the very purpose of preventing people from using them.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Bellerophon]

Since Freecloud Control identifies Rios' ship by type as a "freighter" or "speed freighter", apparently without addressing user modifications, we really have to ask where the average operator of this ship type puts the freight.

'Speed Freighter' to me would imply that the ship is basically a fast cargo courier - that it's designed for getting time-limited freight somewhere fast, rather than hauling large amounts of cargo efficiently. With that kind of role, it's quite believable that the ship's cargo space might actually be rather small - the main central hold the bridge area sits on - and most of the ship's volume is dedicated to warp speed, since that kind of ship role would sacrifice capacity for zippiness.

On a side note, from the Ready Room ep:

Super irritating that it isn't slightly more in focus, but it does confirm that the pod that protrudes from each of the outriggers is a 'flight controller', probably a function akin to to the space version of a plane's control surfaces. (Makes sense for them being set far out from the centre of mass)

 

[Donnewtype]

Good day all.

I wanted to create a picture of what the K17 ids and it's role as I try to build up a model of it. Now your idea, Bellerophon, of a courier type ship fit nicely so here is some creative writing for consideration.

Kaplan Industries K17 "Fast" Freighter:

The K17 is an example of a General Services class ship; one of the innumerable small to small-medium size ships used to fill the limitless demands of commercial trade and private commerce throughout the Federation. The primary advantage of the K17 and its sister classes is their speed and the ease with which they can be modified and reconfigured to meet the demands of the individual consignment courier as well as the independent contractor/owner.

The standard layout has four crew cabins at the rear of the ship with a larger fifth cabin located forward under the bridge. This cabin can be configured for multiple uses, including additional crew accommodations, secure storage or paying passengers.

Unique to the K17 class is an integrated Laboratory/Research hold built into the lower deck. Isolated from the rest of the ship with independent environmental and atmospheric systems, the K17 can carry biological, radiological and environmental cargos that are classified under Federation Commerce Regulations as hazardous materials.

The advantage this gives the K17 over other ships in its class is that, with the installation of an AI Expert Holo-matrix, the hold can be configured into a dedicated medical sick bay or research laboratory. Thus allowing the K17 to serve the scientific and exploration market.

The data and computer architecture of the K17 has the capacity to integrate up to four Expert AI matrices, operating cooperatively with each other as required. As is standard with Expert Holo-matrices, they can be given separate personalities and identities but it’s not uncommon to find the same identity used for all systems, with minor variations made to the individual personality blocks.

All cargo is handled by a multifocal variable aperture transporter system that allows for cargo and personal transport. The open main deck provides for a larger cargo volume compared to similar ships in her class while a separate rear access cargo bay allows for the transport of larger material pallets and containers that do not fit the transporter system or that are deemed “non-transporter compatible” by the captain or client.

The K17 is powered by a six manifold M/AM reactor core feeding two narrow profile warp nacelles. The five impulse/sub light thruster systems; three primary thrusters for in system travel and two secondary thrusters for maneuvering and position adjustment are considered overpowered by standard design criteria, but by using this configuration, the K17 maintains a consistent flight profile under differing planetary gravity conditions. A pair of Flight Attitude Control systems in the outrigger pods gives the K17 maneuverability not normally associated with this class of commercial vessel.

Some things to think about.

 

[Danja]

A large portion of internal volume is taken by the already seen spaces, and the two-level center area is a perfectly fine cargo hold for the types of Federation cargo crates and containers so far seen, as well as for general goods. This area is served by the transporter pad and by four doors, one on each side on each level. This might well suffice for the "freighter" needs; we could then assume Rios added the cabins that flank the upper level (and apparently feature extensive holotechnology, so that the starboard cabin is a French vineyard and the two portside cabins overlap spatially), thus slightly reducing the available cargo space.

Speaking of cabins, I would imagine Seven of Nine's cabin to be somewhat spartan. (She's ex-military. After spending four years in Voyager's cargo bay, I would think she's grateful just for a bed, a desk, and a door that locks from the inside.)

But kneeling landing gear is definitely an option, and the side pods certainly look as if they could be hinged (although only the outer pods have truly obvious hinges).

I have visions of the landing gear as being more along the lines of thrusters that emerge from Sirena's belly (thus enabling the ship to hover).

 

[Mondragon]

https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/gg07k1/they_actually_modeled_the_la_sirenas_bridge_but/

Sharing here too....
Curiosu @ Rama can you share where these came from? Thanks!

La Sirena

 

[Mondragon]

Set Designer Alan Farkas - https://adg.org/directory/10022-alan-farkas/

 

[Mondragon]

Interview with Production Designer Todd Cherniawsky Jump to 7:20 for La Sirena specific - https://www.goldderby.com/video/todd-cherniawsky-interview-star-trek-picard-production-designer/

Also he does reference Alien's Nostromo as influence.

The conceptualization of La Sirena started with the character of Rios. We were fortunate enough to know enough of his backstory to let that work into the narrative design. I guess the analogy that I wanted is that Rios is kind of a warehouse of memories, and had an extensive collection of skeletons in his closet. So the idea of his ship, rather than the ship being compartmentalized and divided up - Which would work equally as well in terms of how he would partition his memories, in good and bad - It felt like it had to be this open undefined blank space. So that was the idea; what does a warehouse in space look like. And then that built upon the fact the ship was being used to deliver freight, as a tug, essentially a rig in space

There were a variety of influences, predominantly maybe the Nostramo from Alien. I think it's kind of the bar for many of us that get to work in science fiction and science fantasy. I think this is such an established the general vernacular it's hard not to kind of look at that as a great place to start with.

But our ship was very different as essentially the bowls were on the top, and then the cleaner spaces were kind of down, as if they - I guess the purity of Rios was in this smaller core of health and science, and where he grew his plants and peeled vegetables. So there were a lot of things as far as re-approaching how you would generally doing a ship.

But the exterior, because this was not a Federation vehicle, we had the latitude to look outside of that. So we still made it terrestrial, essentially using maybe decades, if not century old technology. So the equivalent of a tugboat that's been in service for a hundred years; I think we were saying the ship was roughly fifty years old.

Honestly don't know that any of his ideas or "analogies" about what the ship was meant to convey about Rios' "Character", came off in the design?
And all those wondering how such a small ship is supposed to hold freight and cargo
It's pretty much described as a Tug. So this ship is essentially the rig that tugs cargo, not actually carry it, as many suggested.

"...the ship was being used to deliver freight, as a tug, essentially a rig in space"

"....the equivalent of a tugboat that's been in service for a hundred years..."

I have to say absolutely none of this^ was conveyed (to me) in their design choice.
Yet it puts it in perspective, basically Rios is just living as a Truck-driver/Tugboat Captain.
We're essentially looking at the Trek (non federation) equivalent of these ...

+

 

[publiusr]

The interior does feel like that on Bebop

 

[AlexMC]

Since I haven't seen anyone post about it here, there was an article recently, previewing the magazine that'll be delivered with Eaglemoss's La Sirena model. It's mostly about the process of how they came up with the design for the ship.
https://intl.startrek.com/news/designing-the-la-sirena

There's also some info about the engine set-up in there. I saw someone wrote it up on tumblr and thought I'd add the info to this thread.
[Sorry, I don't know how to do the proper quotes, so I'll just copy paste it:]

"When she was built, La Sirena started out with impulse engines at the back and the big warp nacelles at the sides. At some point, someone added a rig at the back that allowed for large cargo modules to be docked to the ship and towed. ... The cargo modules were big enough to block the original engine, which is why, in the same refit, the pods at the side that are now the main impulse engines were added."​

The article also says that the engine pods have stronger weapons, including torpedo bays, to supplement the ship's originally weaker phasers.

 

[Tuskin38]

Ah, I did, but either in its own thread, or maybe the general Picard ship thread I don't remember.

 

[AlexMC]

Oh cool! I must have missed it among all the things happening in that thread.

Do you remember what your take was on the article?

 

[Go-Captain]

For those who didn't see it, I posted this in the general PIC starship thread.

In light of how it's supposed to be a fast cargo ship, with the ability to act as a tractor trailer configuration i would make a lot more changes than just making the warp nacelles and deflector obvious.

The ship seems to have landing gear and a ground level hatch in back, so I would put the cargo area on the lower deck, and all of the living areas on the top deck. None of the personal implications of the ship reflecting the personality of Rios come through so it's no loss. Instead of a rear ramp, give it a front ramp like the C-5 Galaxy. But cargo handling hatches aren't really needed with transporters.

Since Rios might do mercenary work having the current transporter system makes sense, so maybe it would have switched out the cargo transporter for a better personnel transporter and just accept the loss of inferior cargo transfer. Having it on the top deck would make some sense in that regard, but probably fits the lower deck better as a nod to legacy placement.

For tractoring cargo containers the ship needs some robust tractor beam emitters and should have attachment mechanisms on the bottom of the ship. With a container it would resemble the ENT cargo ships. It also eliminates the issue of the standard impulse engine configuration not working with container hauling, despite the ship being designed for container hauling.

The ship also needs oversized maneuvering thrusters, and perhaps forward facing impulse engines. It needs some basic looking navigation sensors, but perhaps a small pallet here and there reminiscent of Voyager's sensor pallets to imply more going on.

Basic small phaser arrays would make sense. Two on the warp nacelles, a dorsal, ventral, and rear phaser would cover pretty much everything. Then give it a hidden Bird of Prey disruptor in the chin, a forward torpedo launcher in the port bedroom (between the hull and warp nacelle), and a mine rack.

 

[Tuskin38]

Eh I prefer the original. The article linked above explained some of the ship.

Not every ship in Star Trek has the flowys, look at the Klingon BoP.

La Sirena isn't a Starfleet/Federation ship according to one of the designers, so it doesn't need to fit that design language.

 

[publiusr]

The SFB Lyran designs are perhaps the closest.

 

[AlexMC]

It looks like the Eaglemoss model started shipping already - I thought it wasn't coming out until mid-April!

There's a write-up of some of the info in the booklet on tumblr.
Highlights: The ship's length is 85.57m (I know that came up earlier in this thread, but I wasn't sure if it was confirmed yet), and it launched in the 23rd century, so it's at least 100 years old by the time of the show.

 

[DEWLine]

Well, this is interesting. And it implies that this make and model of private starship has been around a very long time, with a considerable after-market.