Speculation: What if the Ferengi are the most compassionate and generous race in the galaxy?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Peter Quinn, Jan 2, 2021.

  1. Peter Quinn

    Peter Quinn Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I was just looking at voyager clips on YouTube and I saw one where Tuvok felt emotions. He said he felt powerful and he speculated that that was how primitive Vulcans must have felt.

    When we first saw Vulcans in the original series, we were told that Vulcans were 100% logical. If Spock ever felt an emotion it could be attributed to the fact that he is half human.

    Later we learned that Vulcans were in fact the most emotional race and that their logic came from training and that without that training the Vulcan race would not have survived.

    Perhaps the Ferengi were in the same situation. Perhaps the primitive Ferengi were generous to the point of what humans would consider insanity. This would have destroyed them if it had continued unchecked just as the Vulcans would have been destroyed by their emotions if they had not embraced logic. The Ferengi embraced greed and profit as a way to put a stop to their unbridled generosity.

    There is some evidence for this in DS9.

    When The Nagus went to see the prophets, he was changed to a more primitive form. The Nagus became too generous.

    Rom is an obvious example of a more primitive Ferengi. Imagine a race full of Roms. They would get wiped out quickly.

    The rules of acquisition often state that Ferengi must value profits over attachment to family. Many people think this means that Ferengi are greedy and that they value profits over family. But the fact that there is a rule against a thing means that people want to do the thing that the law doesn’t allow. Imagine if scholars in the future were researching our current society. They would see laws against using heroin. Would they then conclude that no one used heroin because it was illegal? I don’t think so. The Vulcans are always talking about logic because deep down they want to be emotional. The Ferengi are always talking about profits because deep down they want to be compassionate.
     
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  2. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

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    We were never told either of these things. Vulcans had emotions just like anyone else, they just did a better job hiding them.

    "The Women!!!" - Spock, from "The Cage"
     
  3. Finn

    Finn Bad Batch of TrekBBS Admiral

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    That's bullshit
     
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  4. NewHeavensNewEarth

    NewHeavensNewEarth Commodore Commodore

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    Have you written any actual Ferengi love songs? About Ferengi?
     
  5. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Vice Admiral Admiral

    Ah yes, the original pilot. Was that exclamation scene reused in the televised "The Menagerie"? Only because one could debate whether or not an untelevised pilot meant solely to sell a series to a network isn't necessarily canonical, especially when alterations are demanded afterward. Which TOS got plenty of.
     
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  6. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Vice Admiral Admiral

    An interesting line of dialogue.

    Would you post some of the youtube clip links?

    That is a common inference. It's a bit of a loose canon, as various episodes stray from this. "Plato's Stepchildren" treats Spock as 100% Vulcan and naturally represses emotions, in a way where exhibiting them can be physically detrimental - or even lethal. (As a high concept story, it's chilling how Parmen is using psychokinetic power to cold-bloodedly murder as such.)

    I recall a TOS episode, "Let that be your last battlefield" (as well as last day without carpal tunnel syndrome for the script writer who felt a need to make such a stupidly long title...), which builds up the lore that you're referencing.

    So far, no Ferengi...

    Oops. I spoke too soon. It is not inconceivable that a species might start out one way but adapt into something entirely different along the way. My initial inkling in reading that first sentence was the opposite; where Ferengi evolution had not yet reached such a point. Perhaps you're thinking of a trait associated with the theory of devolution?

    I don't recall the episode.What's the title of that one? Thanks!

    Evolution doesn't work that way. All species have variants within them because everyone being virtually a clone wouldn't last long. Clones are synthetic constructs anyway.

    Spock has opined that having is not as nice as wanting. You might have a point but I would say it's closer to ambivalence than just want for want's sake.

    As for the Ferengi? DS9 often tried to make them more than the 2D caricature TNG created them as being. But there is one scene that can arguably prove your point?

     
  7. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    We know that ferengi were previously more generous and kind hearted from the Prophets. It's possible that there was a darwinistic force that made them more and more greedy. Not necessarily genetic darwinism but cultural darwinism.

    Same as what happened in Earth in reality.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2021
  8. Maurice

    Maurice Snagglepussed Admiral

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    There's no such thing as a theory of devolution. That's a misinterpretation of the theory of evolution which supposes that organisms evolve to become more advanced, which isn't so.
     
  9. Peter Quinn

    Peter Quinn Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Any particular part, or just the whole thing?
     
  10. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Some Ferengi like Quark did like to hang slavery over humans like Sisko as proof that Ferengi were more evolved and compassionate than humans, saying that his people never had institutions like slavery or concentration camps. So while Ferengi may well have been more egalitarian at some point in their distant past a case can be made for Ferengi in the late 24th century feeling superior over and more "compassionate" than Federation species.
     
  11. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    The problem with that is they enslave 50% of their population and don't call it that.
     
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  12. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, many criminals never call what they do crimes but justified actions.
     
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  13. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    You could argue the difference between ferengi and historical humans is that ferengi admit it.
     
  14. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They call how they treated their females "Ferengi culture" and "how we do things in our culture" but at the end of the day they basically admitted they saw women as inferior and kept them in a subservient and more docile position in their society, being little more than glorified housekeepers. They weren't even permitted to travel offworld.
     
  15. Peter Quinn

    Peter Quinn Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Do you have any proof of this?
     
  16. Worf factor9

    Worf factor9 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Ferengi#Role_of_women

    Ferengi women were referred to as "females." They were barred from most aspects of society, such as not being allowed to earn profit or to travel. They were not even allowed to wear clothes and were expected to be undressed at all times. "Thinking about things", as Quark once put it, was neither something expected nor desired of females. Neither was having opinions or political views. They further were not allowed to have any claim to the estate of a husband should the marriage end, as all females were generally required to sign a Waiver of Property and Profit, giving up any such claim.
     
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  17. Peter Quinn

    Peter Quinn Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Your evidence doesn’t show that they were only glorified housekeepers.

    Ferengi women were in charge of caring for and educating children as well as all other non-profitmaking activities, such as giving charity to the needy.
     
  18. Worf factor9

    Worf factor9 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Then, I shall reciprocally ask you for your evidence of such.
     
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  19. Peter Quinn

    Peter Quinn Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Uhh.

    I’ll get back to you on that......
     
  20. Peter Quinn

    Peter Quinn Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    “ Their role as caregiver to the male children of a family was strictly defined. Mothers were expected to teach their children the Rules of Acquisition, and to soften their male children's food by chewing it for them.”

    from memory alpha