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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x11 - "Su'Kal"

Rate the episode...


  • Total voters
    195
Wow... I didn't expect to love this episode so much. The 3rd season has been a little less exciting for me compared to the first 2, but this one out of nowhere has jumped to my top 20 list of all Trek... somehow. I'm still processing my feelings. I love that the cause of the Burn, at least for now, seems to not be a deliberate act of a villain. That would have been predictable and boring. I'm pleasantly surprised. 10*

Oh, I forgot. Moving interaction between Su'Kal and Michael.
 
You don't suppose this is all Vance's plan-within-a-plan to take Osiris and the ring down? This 32nd century Starfleet isn't the one we knew and that would really be brought home if they employed treachery without telling our heroes they were being used as pawns. Just a thought. Vance being the traitor seems too obvious but he HAS been conducting some kind of fleet maneuvers the last couple of eps like he knew something was coming.
 
I tend to think Starfleet/Vance won’t be too much the villain, at least if Discovery really is to stay in this time period. They’ve already done “rebuild the Federation” this season, and they’ve laid it on pretty thick. Turning Starfleet evil this late would make for a difficult status quo for season four, as “fixing Starfleet” would be thematically similar to what they just did. And I don’t think they’ll make Starfleet antagonistic on an ongoing basis, because that wouldn’t be playing nicely with the valuable corporate IP.
 
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Did the costuming department put the wrong badge on the uniform, or did they splice in "stock footage" of Rhys from a previous episode? (Or did Rhys decide to go "retro" for one shift?)
 
A 7.

Parts were interesting to be sure (and that's why a 7) but please going back to the:

- Malfunctioning Holodeck trope.

PLUS

- The enemy EASILY takes over a Federation starship in the blink of an eye...no resistance whatsoever trope.

The Discovery was on red alert but somehow NO ARMED SECTURITUY ANYWHERE ON THE SHIP?

Lets leave 90s Trek tropes in the dumpster. I hadn't seen a ship takeover like that since TNG's "Rascals" (and that episode was utter crap all around).

It's also getting a bit ridiculous that the Villains can show up as nearly instantaneously as the Discovery jumps (IE within 4 hours). I mean hell if ships can still travel that fast, WHY did the Federation fall apart so fast?

Also, you're telling me that 32nd century tech couldn't determine this Nebula as the source of the burn until now? (IE - 125 years later.) Star Fleet scientists must have dropped in IQ over the last 900 years.

Also, come on - we know know what 'event' caused the Burn -- It was the exact moment of Su' Kal's mother's death and his emotional reaction to it -- Western Union couldn't have made the telegraphed plot point faster.

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Did the costuming department put the wrong badge on the uniform, or did they splice in "stock footage" of Rhys from a previous episode? (Or did Rhys decide to go "retro" for one shift?)
Probably the latter. It's something an editor has to do when they didn't get enough coverage on the day of the shoot, can't do reshoots, etc. Discovery isn't the first Star Trek series to do this and it won't be the last. :)
 
Huh. There were parts of this episode that I quite liked. But they don't add up to a good episode. I think this was probably the weakest entry of the show so far this year.

Tilly was great. Doug Jones is amazing, even if I'm not a fan of this Saru plotline. And the cause of the Burn is interesting, if not necessarily cool. At least it doesn't look to have been a deliberate attack.

There had better be a damn good explanation for how Osyraa knew about how the spore drive was controlled, about Stamets, and how she had a ready made mind control device. I'll be annoyed if Book turns out to be a traitor. That would just be a tired retread of the Ash Tyler plot from the first season. I could see them using Adira in that role, though I'm not sure how much sense that would make. She definitely falls under the "person you'd least suspect" heading. Did we see Grey after the last run in between Disco and the Chain? Should we be at all suspicious that he has reappeared now, of all times? I imagine that's too silly to work, even on this show. But I also fear it's more imaginative than whatever explanation we get, if we get one at all. It will probably never get mentioned, sadly, and just left as a piece of terrible plotting.

They haven't completely lost me on this story, yet. But the narrative doesn't really have the momentum you would hope for from a two part story. And considering second parts are almost always weaker, I'm having a hard time getting hyped for the next installment.
 
Probably the latter. It's something an editor has to do when they didn't get enough coverage on the day of the shoot, can't do reshoots, etc. Discovery isn't the first Star Trek series to do this and it won't be the last. :)
Upon closer inspection, the lighting behind Rhys does not appear to be in a "black alert" state while the rest of the cuts to the other bridge crew are correctly lit as such, so "stock footage" seems to be the most logical reason. :)
 
There was a cgi error when they cloak. They had both ships cloak at the same time which looked silly. I think the idea was that Discovery cloaks, and then other does shortly afterwards. I also don’t see why they did as they never moved. The idea is to cloak and then move.
 
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It's kind of odd that Starfleet forgot to give Discovery the metaphasic shield upgrade when they were doing a full refit of the vessel.

Yeah, Starfleet apparently redid the exterior of the ship, gave them detachable nacelles, gave the crew new fancy comm badges and consoles but did not give Discovery new weapons or shields. :wtf:
 
Yeah, Starfleet apparently redid the exterior of the ship, gave them detachable nacelles, gave the crew new fancy comm badges and consoles but did not give Discovery new weapons or shields. :wtf:

Or they have got the shield frequencys from the spy !
 
There's a lot more behind what caused The Burn than this "kid" throwing a tantrum. They wouldn't reveal everything in Episode 11. Everything had to already be in place to make it possible to begin with. I still expect a few more more twists and a few more instances of "Actually, it's a bit more complicated than that... "

I should've guessed Burnham, Saru, and Culber ended up in a holodeck but I didn't immediately figure that out. So at first I was like, "This feels more like a Halloween episode!"

Osyraa makes for a better Seska than Seska. It helps that Osyraa's not stuck with Maje Cullah weighing her down. Even though I still think making Tilly the First Officer was stupid, I'm not going to hold it against this episode because what's done is done... and watching Tilly vs. Osyraa was comedic gold.

No rating on this episode. I feel like this is just going to roll from one episode to the next to the next. So I'll rate all three at the same time.
 
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Maybe Osayra meant that her torpedoes had higher yields but I agree her line about having "bigger torpedoes" was poor writing.

Poor writing indeed, but I was referring more to the writers misconception that 'bigger=better' (which is total nonsense).
If anything, Trek illustrated time and again that with technical efficiency you can build overwhelmingly powerful things in small packages (pretty much like its the case with real life too).

Also, I did not like Tilly saying Discovery had "photons torpedoes". That also felt like poor writing. Starfleet already had quantum torpedoes in use in DS9 era. Are you telling me Starfleet is still using photon torpedoes hundred of years later? Or did Starfleet not give Discovery any new torpedoes? Is Discovery still using her old photon torpedoes from her era?

Osyraa was using photon torpedoes against both Booker's ship and the Kweijan (planet), and Earth ships used Quantum torpedoes.

Long story short: the writers are stupidly unimaginative when it comes to technological advancement.
In essence, its as if nothing has really changed in 930 years (or 810 years - post Voyager) and things remained 'static' (which is again total nonsense), apart from of course 'minor' changes like programmable matter and neutronium/organic/holo fibers... which are a minor outgrowth of what was already seen in 23rd and 24th centuries (so basically, decades worth of advancement - maybe 20 years worth... certainly not 930 or 810).

The Federation should have been building Dyson Swarms (or full blown Spheres) by the 24th century around every Federation member planet star and become a Type III civilization by the 32nd century and gone extragalactic... alas, its as if no such 'real' advancement occurred.

Yeah. I suspect that someone in Starfleet is working for the Emerald Chain. Or maybe the Emerald Chain has an agent in Starfleet? I would not be surprised either if Vance turns out to be secretly collaborating with the Emerald Chain.

It was mentioned that Osyraa was able to determine where Discovery can jump to by analyzing their previous jumps from Kweijan (Sanctuary episode) - which is not a huge stretch when you factor in what sensors in the 24th century were doing, so at least THAT bit is credible (even if they had sensor data from just 1 jump - computers would have advanced to the point where extrapolating that data from large distances [not to mention unimaginably a lot more] would be possible).

It's the 32nd century for crying out lout... why doesn't Discovery regularly implement dampening fields during potentially dangerous situations to prevent hostile beam-ins? Heck, why didn't SF ships use this policy as far back as the 24th century when their enemies did on oh so many occasions?

We've also seen automatic forcefields going up to contain intruders frequently in the 24th century onboard Federation ships... even, in the 23rd (before jumping to the 32nd), Disco was able to project forcefields around that mushroom parasite in engineering. section.
You'd think force fields would automatically pop up around any and all 'intruders' as they beam in... rendering the boarding parties useless.

These 'too easy to capture' scenarios just end up going on my nerves every time I see them.

Why bother with repairing the shields manually?
Its the 32nd century... we've seen regenerative shield capabilities since the 24th century... automation would have repaired the shields much faster (heck the Nova class was able to bring its shields to 100% just by dropping them for 45 seconds and recharging the emitters - the Intrepid class [aka Voyager] was able to boost its shields by initiating a power boost from the main deflector - these are just 2 examples... you'd think these techniques would have been radically improved upon in the proceeding 810 years to the point where things like spatial anomalies and radioactive nebulae wouldn't pose a threat at all).

Furthermore, why aren't Discovery's shields adaptive to prevent the nebula radiation?
Crews were able to modify/adapt the shields to virtually endless situations in past shows... here they are just mucking about as if no one knows how to work anything and as if technology regressed (even though its 'supposed to have advanced as pointed out time and again' - so technically speaking, the shields should have been upgraded to be adaptive to wide range of scenarios, or the shields would progressively adapt pretty much like the Borg did).
 
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Technology needs to be more advanced!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

Ugh, it's basically magic at this point. I don't feel like any of the tech changes do anything for the story. It's just the same old same old and it removes drama.
 
You are being sarcastic, aren't you?

No, actually. Usually, I am, but I am legitimately impressed that you seemed to have gotten Tyler's complicated backstory and identity crisis perfect and with no omissions. Even the show made after-the-fact mistakes, let alone the constant confusion amongst casual fans and detractors.

Once you understand Tyler's physiology and psychology a little better, you can make a more informed judgment on his character.
 
Technology needs to be more advanced!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

Ugh, it's basically magic at this point. I don't feel like any of the tech changes do anything for the story. It's just the same old same old and it removes drama.

I hope you're joking.
What I'm seeing basically is the same rehash of technologies we've seen in the 24th century with 0 real advancement over 930 years (or 810 years since Voyager).
Even programmable matter is nothing that groundbreaking.
 
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