Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x03 - "People of Earth"

[Lord Garth]

To be perfectly honest, while I have no issue with an enby character, I do feel like it's not realistic to presume the use of "they" as the pronoun of choice would exist for 1,200 years. I mean, there's barely been consensus on it for a decade here in reality. Seems like we'd develop new pronouns - especially because we'd have experience with all kinds of alien races with more than two genders.

At the end of the day, people watching this show in the future will be able to tell it was made around 2020 no matter what. Whatever Adira prefers to be referred to as is what I'm going to go with.

Saru referring to Adira as "her" isn't something I'm going to take as anything to go by, since Saru probably doesn't know Adira's non-binary and wasn't there to correct him.

 

[jackoverfull]

If I'm not mistaken, I think the impulse engines draw their power from fusion generators on board... but otherwise they CAN run off the Warp core too.

you are not mistaken. Impulse engines being powered by fusion reactors is prominently featured in the writers’ guide and, much more importantly, expressly mentioned in TNG: Galaxy’s Child.

 

[137th Gebirg]

At the end of the day, people watching this show in the future will be able to tell it was made around 2020 no matter what. Whatever Adira prefers to be referred to as is what I'm going to go with.

Saru referring to Adira as "her" isn't something I'm going to take as anything to go by, since Saru probably doesn't know Adira's non-binary and wasn't there to correct him.

I noticed that. Stamets did too, IIRC.

 

[Andyliini]

Now this episode I loved. I have enjoyed the first two of this season, but this one truly immersed me. Saru has grown out to be a great captain, and the relations with the crew seem to expand all the time. It also surprised me with North-Korea -like earth and a trill in it. This was certainly the best episode so far, a 9 from me.

I should have known, though. Jonathan Frakes knows how to direct Trek.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

To be perfectly honest, while I have no issue with an enby character, I do feel like it's not realistic to presume the use of "they" as the pronoun of choice would exist for 1,200 years. I mean, there's barely been consensus on it for a decade here in reality. Seems like we'd develop new pronouns - especially because we'd have experience with all kinds of alien races with more than two genders.

To me, I never really thought that the standard dialect spoken in Star Trek series was the same dialect we speak here in the late-20th to early-21st century. I assume they might have different ways to turn a phrase, different figures of speech, different metaphors, different common curse words, etc.

That is to say, when we hear them use a figure of speech that we commonly use today, it might not be THAT figure of speech actually being used, but it is just the writers telling us that a 23rd or 24th-century version of a figure of speech was just used.Therefore, if we hear them use the word "they" as a non-binary pronoun, that does not necessarily mean the actual word used is "they", but rather that's just the way it is presented to us.

And I'm not saying it's necessarily the universal translator either; I'm just saying it's the writers. If I see a story that takes place 10,000 or 25,000 years into OUR future as humans (say Dune or Foundation), I don't think they are really speaking our contemporary English -- or English at all, for that matter.

Having said that, most Star Trek is only 200 to 300 years into our future, so our version of English would still be around, but with different figures of speech. However, 1200 years from now is pushing it a bit, and the language may have changed quite a bit. I think the universal translator will be needed even when DISCO crew is talking to 33rd century Earthers.

 

[valkyrie013]

So.. The person playing Adria may be non binary but the character being played is a she.. To my knowledge there was nothing saying that the characters being played were the actors preference? Or am I wrong?

 

[fireproof78]

don't think they are really speaking our contemporary English -- or English at all, for that matter.

Same here. I think it's a dramatic convivence which is why I have no issue with the Klingons speaking Klingon and then shifting to English. It's not realistic-it's just for drama. Any more than my high school play about the Holocaust and German Jews would reasonable expect those characters to be speaking English.

 

[Lord Garth]

So.. The person playing Adria may be non binary but the character being played is a she.. To my knowledge there was nothing saying that the characters being played were the actors preference? Or am I wrong?

I don't know. It's entirely possible that Adira identifies as a woman until the next episode, when Discovery visits Trill, and then decides to identify as non-binary once the Trill help Adira unlock the memories of all their previous hosts.

I hope that's not the route they go, because that would be a throwback to Berman Trek where it has to be an alien to be "other". I'm hoping that Adira identifies as non-binary to begin with.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

That is to say, when we hear them use a figure of speech that we commonly use today, it might not be THAT figure of speech actually being used, but it is just the writers telling us that a 23rd or 24th-century version of a figure of speech was just used.Therefore, if we hear them use the word "they" as a non-binary pronoun, that does not necessarily mean the actual word used is "they", but rather that's just the way it is presented to us.

There are other possibilities. It could be that when when the Earth captains calls Adira "she," the captain is using one of several different words for feminine that are actually ambiguous. There are languages, especially from the ancient world, and including Hebrew, that did not stop at two genders, but could reflect various stages of indeterminacy, some neutral, some more feminine, some more masculine.

 

[Mike McDevitt]

Synthehol in a Starfleet food synthesizer database from 2258? Scotty didn't even know about it in 2369. Sigh.

Other than that, good episode!

By his departure from history in 2294 famed drinker Scotty has never heard of synthehol. In concept, it was invented by the Ferengi and the UFP has not opened trade with them in Scotty’s time. 2258’s Discovery should not have it. But... Did Mirror Universe Lorca or Georgiou put it on the menu?

 

[PiotrB]

Clearly the show uses current English in everything else; why not pronouns?

The pronouns will probably be used over time. But it will be a problem for Netflix how to translate an untranslatable thing in many languages.The pronoun 'They' is used in plural and has a male and a female gender in many languages. In addition, in many languages the case inflection is also different for each gender.

 

[frankieteardrop]

So.. The person playing Adria may be non binary but the character being played is a she.. To my knowledge there was nothing saying that the characters being played were the actors preference? Or am I wrong?

Adira was officially announced as the first non-binary character in Trek and the announcement uses the gender neutral "they" in reference to the character. IIRC, one of the recent DSC panels also acknowledged that the character is non-binary.

The Star Trek universe’s first non-binary character is Adira, played by Blu del Barrio. Adira is highly intelligent with a confidence and self-assurance well beyond their years. They will find a new home on the U.S.S. Discovery and form an unexpected bond with Lt. Commander Paul Stamets (Anthony Rapp) and Dr. Hugh Culber (Wilson Cruz).

https://www.startrek.com/news/star-...es-first-trangender-and-non-binary-characters

 

[fireproof78]

Did Mirror Universe Lorca or Georgiou put it on the menu?

That sounds like a very Lorca thing to do.

 

[Mike McDevitt]

They could've picked a better place for a memorial wall than a random corridor corner XD



The "battery" for the fancy purple stripe tricorder in LDS looked like a red crystal...

Battlestar Galactica taught us a hallway is the place for memorials.
That tricorder battery was wished up by an interdimensional genie, and may not be typical- but if it is a typical battery it is likely to be sarium krellide, not dilithium.

 

[cultcross]

The pronouns will probably be used over time. But it will be a problem for Netflix how to translate an untranslatable thing in many languages.The pronoun 'They' is used in plural and has a male and a female gender in many languages. In addition, in many languages the case inflection is also different for each gender.

It has occurred to me in the past that the pronoun issue encountered by non binary people in English must be severely worse in some other languages for that reason.

 

[UssGlenn]

Saru referring to Adira as "her" isn't something I'm going to take as anything to go by, since Saru probably doesn't know Adira's non-binary and wasn't there to correct him.

The Inspector Captain also uses She to refer to Adria, and would be in a position to know.

I don't know. It's entirely possible that Adira identifies as a woman until the next episode, when Discovery visits Trill, and then decides to identify as non-binary once the Trill help Adira unlock the memories of all their previous hosts.

This is totally what they are going to do, I'm sure of it. Though a possible scenario is some Trill will note that only those who were already predisposed go non-binary after a full joining, even if they don't realize it beforehand. That would make it "event causes realization" rather than "event causes outcome".

 

[Photoman15]

It shouldn't. With impulse engines (which go light speed) back and forth from Earth to Titan should take 1-2 hours.

you are not mistaken. Impulse engines being powered by fusion reactors is prominently featured in the writers’ guide and, much more importantly, expressly mentioned in TNG: Galaxy’s Child.

AND, they do not go light speed, they approach light speed. And anything much faster than 1/4 impulse will have time dilation effects.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

It has occurred to me in the past that the pronoun issue encountered by non binary people in English must be severely worse in some other languages for that reason.

It will definitely be another very Anglo/American-centric aspect of the franchise.

The good news: if we start to refer to Adira as the next Wesley, we can still use the gender neutral "das Wunderkind."

 

[eschaton]

The Organians, Metrons, Trelane's race, etc like to mostly keep to themselves. The Arretans are ancient, but they don't have a way of getting around anymore.

Yeah, I know there are tons of excuses. The point is though - similar to the Fermi Paradox - you only need one to decide that expansionism and continued technological advancement is the way to go, and they could roll over the entire galaxy - eventually. Just slowly expand and outlast all the competition.

in the case of a Human/Trill Symbiont pairing, They is about as correct as it can get.

Indeed it is. But I think someone could easily argue that non-binary status which was due to joining is not really being an enby.

To me, I never really thought that the standard dialect spoken in Star Trek series was the same dialect we speak here in the late-20th to early-21st century. I assume they might have different ways to turn a phrase, different figures of speech, different metaphors, different common curse words, etc.

That is to say, when we hear them use a figure of speech that we commonly use today, it might not be THAT figure of speech actually being used, but it is just the writers telling us that a 23rd or 24th-century version of a figure of speech was just used.Therefore, if we hear them use the word "they" as a non-binary pronoun, that does not necessarily mean the actual word used is "they", but rather that's just the way it is presented to us.

And I'm not saying it's necessarily the universal translator either; I'm just saying it's the writers. If I see a story that takes place 10,000 or 25,000 years into OUR future as humans (say Dune or Foundation), I don't think they are really speaking our contemporary English -- or English at all, for that matter.

Having said that, most Star Trek is only 200 to 300 years into our future, so our version of English would still be around, but with different figures of speech. However, 1200 years from now is pushing it a bit, and the language may have changed quite a bit. I think the universal translator will be needed even when DISCO crew is talking to 33rd century Earthers.

I agree with all of this. But TBH I prefer the approach of say The Expanse (or say the Fifth Element) where they actually put some effort in making the future seem a bit culturally alien over the Star Trek trope of making people as bland and relatable as possible.

It's hundreds of years in the future. I want to feel out of my depth a bit trying to follow everything.

 

[eschaton]

AND, they do not go light speed, they approach light speed. And anything much faster than 1/4 impulse will have time dilation effects.

To be fair, while you would have extreme time dilation going at full impulse from Saturn to Earth...you'd just end up losing 2-4 hours on the round trip? That's basically jet lag, nothing jarring.