I don't read many Trek novels, but it was like they weren't fully engaged in the fact they were fighting a war.
Timeline: Earth-Romulan War/Early Federation
- Thread starter mthompson1701
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I follow both. You can mash 'em together if you try.
We could follow at least the novel timeline for battles, but ignore things like when ships are destroyed, and things like that. It does lock us into those particular dates, and we wouldn't be able to change them. If we follow novel continuity no author could have an NX-class ship because their fates have already been decided.
From what I remember from the novels (it's been a few years since I read them) the Daedalus-class is an older ship, capable of warp three. They were upgraded with NX-class technology because Starfleet couldn't build NX-class ships fast enough.
From what I remember from the novels (it's been a few years since I read them) the Daedalus-class is an older ship, capable of warp three. They were upgraded with NX-class technology because Starfleet couldn't build NX-class ships fast enough.
This is somewhat relative to the discussion in this thread....
In the game Star Fleet Battles, there is something called "Non-Tactical Warp". Here's the story of how that came about. I posted a suggestion for some sort of claw that a Ptolemy-class tug could use to rescue and recover a separated saucer section. (I was working on a combat scenario that needed such a device.) Steve Cole, the game's designer, said, "No, no. You don't need that. If a ship has at least one working Impulse box**, it can jump to warp speed and limp home." He coined the term Non-Tactical Warp.
**In the game, a Constitution-class heavy cruiser has two 15-box warp engines and a 4-box impulse drive. Each box produces one point of power, which is used for movement, to arm weapons, raise shields, and a variety of other actions. Combat is done at game speeds up to 32 hexes per turn, which equates to warp 3.17, above which the ship jumps to a strategic speed and escapes the combat zone. Obviously, ships need warp engines to move at Tactical Warp speed in combat.
As we all know, early Romulan ships do not have warp engines and thus are limited to Speed 1 in game terms, i.e., sub-light speed. Once the bought warp drive technology off the Klingons, they retrofitted older ships with warp drive.
However, someone asked Steve Cole if sub-light Romulan ships could also utilize Non-Tactical Warp, to which he replied, "But of course they can. How else do you think they could build a Star Empire? They have to be able to move at faster-than-light speeds, just not in combat."
Two things remain unanswered. First, exactly how does Non-Tactical Warp work? Do you just cruise at very low speeds, equivalent to Warp three point five or Warp Four? Or do you sprint at Warp Five for several parsecs and then drop to sub-light to cool down and recalculate the next jump?
The other mystery is: What was Non-Tactical Warp called before the newer Tactical Warp drive was invented?
In the game Star Fleet Battles, there is something called "Non-Tactical Warp". Here's the story of how that came about. I posted a suggestion for some sort of claw that a Ptolemy-class tug could use to rescue and recover a separated saucer section. (I was working on a combat scenario that needed such a device.) Steve Cole, the game's designer, said, "No, no. You don't need that. If a ship has at least one working Impulse box**, it can jump to warp speed and limp home." He coined the term Non-Tactical Warp.
**In the game, a Constitution-class heavy cruiser has two 15-box warp engines and a 4-box impulse drive. Each box produces one point of power, which is used for movement, to arm weapons, raise shields, and a variety of other actions. Combat is done at game speeds up to 32 hexes per turn, which equates to warp 3.17, above which the ship jumps to a strategic speed and escapes the combat zone. Obviously, ships need warp engines to move at Tactical Warp speed in combat.
As we all know, early Romulan ships do not have warp engines and thus are limited to Speed 1 in game terms, i.e., sub-light speed. Once the bought warp drive technology off the Klingons, they retrofitted older ships with warp drive.
However, someone asked Steve Cole if sub-light Romulan ships could also utilize Non-Tactical Warp, to which he replied, "But of course they can. How else do you think they could build a Star Empire? They have to be able to move at faster-than-light speeds, just not in combat."
Two things remain unanswered. First, exactly how does Non-Tactical Warp work? Do you just cruise at very low speeds, equivalent to Warp three point five or Warp Four? Or do you sprint at Warp Five for several parsecs and then drop to sub-light to cool down and recalculate the next jump?
The other mystery is: What was Non-Tactical Warp called before the newer Tactical Warp drive was invented?
I find the idea of Romulans fighting an interstellar war without warp to be a little hard to believe, especially since their a civilisation technically as old as the Vulcans. I know it's in the canon as far back as their first appearance, but as is the trend now the canon means nothing as you can just do whatever you like. It's been ages since I last watcher TOS, though if I do recall the cloak caught them offguard in the episode, yet ENT established that they did have cloaking technology on the 22nd century.
I don't see how the Romulans could wage interstellar war without warp drive either. Yes, in TOS the cloak did catch them off guard, but Enterprise showed they already had it. Easiest way I can think of to write around it, Section 31 covered all that up. It's not in any records in the 23rd century.
I've read theories that the Romulans would simply accelerate to extremely high sublight speeds. Given time dilation the federation will be in for a real surprise in a couple of thousand years when these ships start arriving a their targets.
No, the Roumulan had to of had warp drive, although the BOP in Balance of Terror apparently didn't have one, but maybe it didn't need one for the attack we saw.
I can accept the idea of a fusion/impulse engine being able to power the warp drive for Low Warp speeds, its just a matter of power.
I think it's safe to say that the Romulans had warp drive, and the Bird of Prey used during Balance Of Terror did not.
I picture the Coalition of Planets as a NATO like alliance, where an attack on one is an attack on all which would explain Spock's like of "Earth and her allies."
What event should kick off the war? Attack on Earth? Starbase One?
I picture the Coalition of Planets as a NATO like alliance, where an attack on one is an attack on all which would explain Spock's like of "Earth and her allies."
What event should kick off the war? Attack on Earth? Starbase One?
My view is same as SFB, which says a ship with only Impulse Drive can still make FTL speeds, but because it takes several minutes to calculate the jump and/or several minutes to make said jump and/or the ship as little to no maneuverability (straight flight path in FTL), it's impossible to use In Combat.
No. Too much too soon. An attack on a major colony or a logistics base makes more sense.
reports of unusual starships, missing freighters and passager ships, destruction of colonies. this happening over a period of years.
even a small area of the galaxy is still ridiculously huge, in time it was determined that the romulans were behind it all.
It would depend on how close a union the Coalition of Planets is. Is it was a strong alliance where if one world was attacked then the rest would respond or more of a cultural and economic cordial agreement.
If its the former than one attack against any of the members (it doesn't have to be humanity) would see them all piling in, or if its the latter then some might join initially whilst others stand back until the stakes increase and force them to get involved (such as the invasion of Belgium or Pearl Harbour in WW1 and WW2 respectively), or would the Romulans make the mistake of launching simultaneous attacks on multiple species?
The motives of the Romulans would also need to be understood. Are they doing this for territory? Are they worried about their own border security and so strike first? Does the actions of Earth or a Coalition Member lead the Empire to believe it's being invaded and so defends itself? They were always painted as a more cunning and "devious" race than the Klingons, not ones for blunt aggression and fighting for the sake of it or to achieve honour and glory. Look at the conflict from their perspective and you'd be able to work out how it begins.
I always thought that the Empire perceived other races as a threat, but didn't want to take to open conflict, so they done things through proxy's and other devious means to make sure that the other races were at least bickering with each other so that they wouldn't turn there attention to the Empire. While I don't think the Romulans were expansionists, they probably conquered a section of the galaxy and let it be.
With the introduction of the Humans to the galaxy, especially Archer, The romulans now had a problem, that section of the galaxy was beginning to stabilize, after the failure of the V"Las and the failure of the Telepresence drone. The drone having the complete opposite effect of not only stabilizing but former antagonistic species actually talking and forming a Union, because of the Humans.
In the lead up, they probably tried more "Under the Table" solutions but kept failing until the Romulans thought, we have to do something more drastic, and decided to take out Earth as best they can. So the beginning of the war was probably an attack on Earth direct.
With the introduction of the Humans to the galaxy, especially Archer, The romulans now had a problem, that section of the galaxy was beginning to stabilize, after the failure of the V"Las and the failure of the Telepresence drone. The drone having the complete opposite effect of not only stabilizing but former antagonistic species actually talking and forming a Union, because of the Humans.
In the lead up, they probably tried more "Under the Table" solutions but kept failing until the Romulans thought, we have to do something more drastic, and decided to take out Earth as best they can. So the beginning of the war was probably an attack on Earth direct.
Was the Coaliltion of Planets involved at all? The war with the Romulans was referred to as the Earth/Romulan war, not the Coaliltion/Romulan war. At on point in Balance of Terror, Spock did speak of allies, but it was unclear if they were Earth allies, or Romulan allies.
Earth might have been fighting the Romulans with little or no assistance.
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Maybe the other species had a more isolationist approach during the war, they consolidated there own fleets to protect there own homeworlds, and cargo authorities. with maybe a token fleet of ships.
I'm working on a story that kind of deals with it in that the Romulans are mainly attacking Earth, and the others in the Coalition do offer ships to protect Earth, and maybe a few for a fleet, but there mainly out of it. Had Coridan as an example of this, they raided the planet for dilithium, and made an example by bombarding the planet after they resisted. None of the other species want that, so except for token ships, and some humanitarian help, there out of it.
I'm working on a story that kind of deals with it in that the Romulans are mainly attacking Earth, and the others in the Coalition do offer ships to protect Earth, and maybe a few for a fleet, but there mainly out of it. Had Coridan as an example of this, they raided the planet for dilithium, and made an example by bombarding the planet after they resisted. None of the other species want that, so except for token ships, and some humanitarian help, there out of it.
I always assumed that the Earth-Romulan War was between Humans and Romulans. Everyone else just sat back and watched while Humans were getting their butts kicked. At some point, perhaps when Earth/Sol System was attacked, Humans talked the others to join in to push the Romulans back. This was the birth of what became the UFP.
Oh, and the whole Temporal Cold War? Because they screwed with the timelines, that all happened in a parallel universe.
Oh, and the whole Temporal Cold War? Because they screwed with the timelines, that all happened in a parallel universe.
societies don't expend the resources to build a armed fleet for just no reason. just because humans and romulans are fighting each other, doesn't mean the nearby/surrounding species previous requirements suddenly disappeared.
the most they might have done is position their fleets to prevent the war from spilling into their respective territories.
ultimately it was the romulans who got their "butts kicked."
there seems to be a presumption that the romulan had a superior fleet simply because they were older and referred to their area as a "empire." also because starfleet's forces were few in numbers during the events of enterprise, that would still be the case a decade later. and that starfleet composed all humanity had in terms of armed ships.
if humans figured that a war with the romulans was inevitable, expanding the fleet/fleets could have been seen as a necessity.
my head-canon is that the federation was initially simply the coaliltion of planets given a more grandious name, but essentually the same type of alliance.
Well an economic partnership is different to a arch duke Ferdinand moment with bunch of war treaties.
The Tellerites wouldn't have interfered with a Vulcan andorian war if it happened. So a romulan/earth war would probably get token help from a few solid people like Soval and Shran but no fleets. Part of the war would have to be Archer going around begging for help and talking everybody into pushing back jointly other than an isolationist view.
The Tellerites wouldn't have interfered with a Vulcan andorian war if it happened. So a romulan/earth war would probably get token help from a few solid people like Soval and Shran but no fleets. Part of the war would have to be Archer going around begging for help and talking everybody into pushing back jointly other than an isolationist view.
Yes, after Earth talked the others into helping. Before that, mankind had their back against the wall.
We do see in ENT, when the Romulan drone ship is in use that Earth banded together with Andor, Tellar and Vulcan to tackle it, so in a full-scale war I can't see them sitting back and watching things unfold. They might not have gotten involved from day one, but if Earth asked for support I'd believe at least the Andorians would muck in with the fighting and the Vulcans would provide support for them (though they do look to be in a sorry state after the "Syrrannite reformation").
