Spoilers Senior Officer Replicators

[Charles Phipps]

But completely gave up after the attack on Mars.

Yeah.

I'm not sure I really get Picard's argument. A 100,000 people are dead, a planet has to be evacuated, and the fleets they've created are destroyed. How much blood does it take being spilled before it's enough?

It's not like they refused to empty their pockets. They did and did so willingly. It's just after they did, they were mugged.

 

[BillJ]

I'm not sure I really get Picard's argument. A 100,000 people are dead, a planet has to be evacuated, and the fleets they've created are destroyed. How much blood does it take being spilled before it's enough?

It rubbed me the wrong way for the Federation to completely give up on the project. Of course it would have to be scaled back, but to completely give up comes across as a betrayal of Federation values.

 

[Charles Phipps]

It rubbed me the wrong way for the Federation to completely give up on the project. Of course it would have to be scaled back, but to completely give up comes across as a betrayal of Federation values.

It is but on the other hand, I don't think its fundamentally remotely the same thing to treat it the same as if it wasn't after a massive attempt to help only to have them all die in a terrorist attack. Because if there wasn't a failure then there isn't a story.

But I also don't think it's not a massive improvement from present day humanity to build an enormous fleet for your worst enemies and only give up after an entire city's worth of people died horribly.

A careful balance needed to be struck but it worked for me. I know some people think the Federation should always be lawful good but that's just my take.

 

[fireproof78]

A careful balance needed to be struck but it worked for me. I know some people think the Federation should always be lawful good but that's just my take.

Exactly. I think the Federation is working towards supporting its members but there are limits as to how far they can go. And I think that is what the evacuation fleet demonstrated is that Starfleet and the Federation had given again and again, had withstood against the Borg, the Dominion and numerous other threats, including a Romulan incursion.

I know they are supposed to be good but still. We've seen them respond with fear as well.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Half a billion people, who were not even being paid, were laid off, and replaced by an droid labour, who 10 years later were being coaxed to return to the factories because the Federation miscalculated.

The Labour stopgap would have been bad enough that the Federation might have considered reinventing money.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It rubbed me the wrong way for the Federation to completely give up on the project. Of course it would have to be scaled back, but to completely give up comes across as a betrayal of Federation values.

The distance between stars.

Unless there's subspace radiation being flung about at super luminal speeds, the neighboring systems should have decades to prepare for the wash coming off that supernova.

There was a ticking clock.

But after the red line past, and the sun exploded, there was no saving anyone still in Romulan Space, as the situation was described.


You can't save the already dead with a fleet you haven't built yet.

Unless the problem was economic after the homeworld bought the farm.

What happens to Hawaii American Samoa or Guam if Continental America goes belly up?

 

[Charles Phipps]

The distance between stars.

Unless there's subspace radiation being flung about at super luminal speeds, the neighboring systems should have decades to prepare for the wash coming off that supernova.

There was a ticking clock.

But after the red line past, and the sun exploded, there was no saving anyone still in Romulan Space, as the situation was described.

Technically, you can with SPACE MAGIIIIICCC.

Or in this case Red Matter that absorbed the radiation and saved everyone on the nearby planets but those not on Romulus.

Unless we're just flat out declaring the opening of STAR TREK 2009 non-canon because so much else was changed.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You get centuries warning if your star is in a natural decline. The Romulans only settled that world 2000 years ago, so either they thought it was fine to colonise a nearly blown up planet, it was just temporary, they were out of feul, or what happened to the Romulan Star was completely unnatural.

Maybe the Romulans inflicted their singularity technology on their own star, and it went bad?

 

[Charles Phipps]

You get centuries warning if your star is in a natural decline. The Romulans only settled that world 2000 years ago, so either they thought it was fine to colonise a nearly blown up planet, it was just temporary, they were out of feul, or what happened to the Romulan Star was completely unnatural.

Maybe the Romulans inflicted their singularity technology on their own star, and it went bad?

Agreed.

I feel like sometimes Trekkies go overboard with their attempt to inject realistic science. The sun went supernova with no warning and was undoubtedly a yellow sun when it went boom. Why? Could be Iconians, could be a DC comics Sun Eater, could be plasma mining of red matter for Romulan starships.

Stuff just....happens in Star Trek sometimes.

It's not that science is wrong, it's just it's incomplete because it's very WEIRD galaxy.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Half a billion people, who were not even being paid, were laid off, and replaced by an droid labour, who 10 years later were being coaxed to return to the factories because the Federation miscalculated.

Where are you getting that from?

PIC itself doesn't give us such background on the synth situation, and The Last Best Hope (not primary canon, but certainly a source of background) makes it clear that the synth force was specifically created for the rescue armada project because existing conventional workforces couldn't get the job done in the time available.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Where are you getting that from?

PIC itself doesn't give us such background on the synth situation, and The Last Best Hope (not primary canon, but certainly a source of background) makes it clear that the synth force was specifically created for the rescue armada project because existing conventional workforces couldn't get the job done in the time available.

Trump decides to reactivate the pony express, to help legitimize mail in voting.

How many expert horse people and horses could Trump's Postmaster General drum up in a week to cover nearly 1/4 of a million postal routes ( I looked it up.) and the internet, because Trump does not trust email either.

Okay.

My timeline is off.

Even if this was the first job the Synth workforce was put on, the second, third, fourth and 1000th jobs started seconds later as every foreman in the Federation started replicating Sythns and laying off their conventional work force.

Unions?

Why the big deal about a synth ban if the only Synths were on mars and melted down after the terrorism subsided.

Syths became every where very quickly.

Black and White TV with Bunny ears.

The only thing I got wrong is how long the synths lasted, and how long the humanoid workforce had been left to seed, before they had to be wooed back to keep the trains running.

Months instead of decades.

 

[fireproof78]

Stuff just....happens in Star Trek sometimes.

Ceti Alpha 6 exploded.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Even if this was the first job the Synth workforce was put on, the second, third, fourth and 1000th jobs started seconds later as every foreman in the Federation started replicating Sythns and laying off their conventional work force.

According to TLBH, the only job that synths were built for was the evacuation. There was no "second, third, fourth and 1000th jobs" unless you have a source that says differently.

My timeline is off.

AFAICT, your premise is off, but prove me wrong and I'll admit it.

Why the big deal about a synth ban if the only Synths were on mars and melted down after the terrorism subsided.

The "big deal" is that a) the job they were built for wasn't finished (as explicitly laid out in canon) and b) they also banned all practical research, preventing the "glitch" from being fixed, and all related medical applications of cybernetic components leading to multiple, preventable deaths (inc Thad Riker), again this is canon.

Syths became every where very quickly.

The only thing I got wrong is how long the synths lasted, and how long the humanoid workforce had been left to seed, before they had to be wooed back to keep the trains running.

Given that we are told of no other place AFAIK that they are in use, I'd be interested in your source on this as it seems to be your unsubstantiated theory.

Cite your sources, persuade me otherwise.

 

[Deks]

You get centuries warning if your star is in a natural decline. The Romulans only settled that world 2000 years ago, so either they thought it was fine to colonise a nearly blown up planet, it was just temporary, they were out of feul, or what happened to the Romulan Star was completely unnatural.

Maybe the Romulans inflicted their singularity technology on their own star, and it went bad?

I was under the impression that it was the Hobus star that went supernova, not Romulus own star (although the supernova endangering/destroying Romulus is not impossible).
Supernovae in real life can cause massive devastation from lightyears away (they'd just take much longer to get there and affect said damage)... the Hobus one probably went FTL with subspace interaction (and as you say, the ROmulans themselves could have been responsible).

Furthermore, I was actually wondering... where are the Romulans in all of this?
They have their own fleets of ships at disposal, so I don't understand why were they relying on the Federation for help?
Sure, the Federation being the good guys DID devote a lot of resources into this, but when the Romulan saboteur commandeered the synths and attacked Mars (and destroyed those support ships), I doubt there would have been enough time to send anything... still, what also doesn't make sense is the fact the Federation would have large number of shipyards in every member species star system that joined the Federation.

The Feds would have the capacity to construct thousands of ships at the same time (if each member species star system has its own shipyard facilities similar to Utopia Planitia and the construction yards in Earth's orbit - and likely in orbits of other planetary bodies in SOL and other member speices planetary systems), and have them rendezvous with each other at Romulus.

Constructing 10 000 support ships would be a very small task when looking at the scales from this point of view... and automation can construct them much faster than manual labor can.

But again, I'm having to wonder... where the heck were the Romulans with their own fleets?

 

[fireproof78]

But again, I'm having to wonder... where the heck were the Romulans with their own fleets?

Protecting their leadership and higher ups, with little concern for the rest of their people.

 

[The Wormhole]

I was under the impression that it was the Hobus star that went supernova, not Romulus own star

In Trek XI's prequel comic Countdown, it was a star named Hobus that went nova. In Picard and its associated tie-in material it's been retconned to be the star in the Romulus system.

 

[Deks]

In Trek XI's prequel comic Countdown, it was a star named Hobus that went nova. In Picard and its associated tie-in material it's been retconned to be the star in the Romulus system.

That's odd because even the 2009 Trek movie (prime Spock) doesn't mention it was the Romulus star that went nova... but that it was just a supernova that threatens the galaxy and which ended up destroying Romulus.

 

[Guy Gardener]

According to TLBH, the only job that synths were built for was the evacuation. There was no "second, third, fourth and 1000th jobs" unless you have a source that says differently.



AFAICT, your premise is off, but prove me wrong and I'll admit it.



The "big deal" is that a) the job they were built for wasn't finished (as explicitly laid out in canon) and b) they also banned all practical research, preventing the "glitch" from being fixed, and all related medical applications of cybernetic components leading to multiple, preventable deaths (inc Thad Riker), again this is canon.





Given that we are told of no other place AFAIK that they are in use, I'd be interested in your source on this as it seems to be your unsubstantiated theory.

Cite your sources, persuade me otherwise.

The horseless carriage.

 

[Shawnster]

I never bought into the concept that they would use status/branding in a future which is supposed to be technically void of such concepts (including money).

The use of a rank structure is the exact opposite of a status less society. This far flung future has had class and rank structure portrayed in literally every single story

Rank has its privileges and has nothing to do with the military. To those who claim Starfleet is not the military, that's fine but has absolutely nothing to do with preventing replicators from being different in quality produced.

The executive washroom in a corporate headquarters is nicer than the ones the newly hired staff use. The corporate offices probably have better furniture and better views than the cubicle farm. Executive dining has better food than vending machines. Someone already mentioned the food in first class being better than in coach. This isn't entirely due to money but also due to status. Perks of the rank or class structure.

So, yeah, it's realistic to think senior officers have access to better or different replicated food than the grunts in lower decks. They have better quarters, too. Perk of the job. Incentive for advancement. Reward for the hard work. Whatever you call it.

Better or different can be described in a variety of ways. More selection, taste, etc...

And it can also be a placebo effect. It's all the same but since it's in a shinier location it must be better.

Any or all these options are believable.

 

[dupersuper]

That's odd because even the 2009 Trek movie (prime Spock) doesn't mention it was the Romulus star that went nova... but that it was just a supernova that threatens the galaxy and which ended up destroying Romulus.

Whatever that meant...