Romulan War & UFP

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

What's the story on the Romulan War? All I can remember is that the Romulans went to war with Earth and possibly other worlds. Planets bandied together to form the UFP after having won the war against the Romulans. What episodes and films can we reference and cite?

 

[Timo]

Essentially, there's nothing to remember: the only things stated are contained in the TOS episode "Balance of Terror".

There's also an infodump computer readout in the ENT episode "In a Mirror, Darkly", but even if one freeze-framed that one and tried to read it, one could argue it's from a parallel universe and doesn't apply to the regular one.

Other episodes provide stuff that isn't really linked to the war. TNG "The Defector" mentions a Battle of Cheron, but doesn't associate it with the old war in any way. TNG movie Insurrection has dialogue about the Romulans having been considered mere "thugs" who became an "empire" due to warp drive; a timeframe of about a century prior, that is, during TOS, is mentioned, but not directly associated with the warp drive thing or the empire thing or anything much.

We thus only know that

1) the war was fought about a century before the TOS episode, thus around the prequel show ENT or shortly before or after,
2) Earth and the Romulan Star Empire were combatants, and one or both may have had (or currently, in TOS, have) allies, that is, they may have been part of a broader alliance of some sort,
3) as the result, the RSE was isolated from the rest of the galaxy by the fortified and monitored Neutral Zone,
4) and nobody from the Earth side ever saw a Romulan, none of whom were captured, and none of whom ever communicated visually.

We don't know who won. We don't know who fought. We don't know when the fighting happened, and where, and how (save for it involving primitive ships and weapons with respect to TOS, but that's rather a no-brainer, and would apply, say, to the 1990s Iraq War wrt the 2000s one just as well).

We don't know who died, save for members of the Stiles family. Might be sixty trillion lives were lost. Might be six were.

In "Balance of Terror", the war is a forgotten one, Kirk feeling his crew needs an infomercial when the ship enters the old border zone. Romulans apparently won't forget (understandable if they live for centuries!), but humans have forgotten pretty central things such as the Romulans having mastered visual disguise and indeed invisibility... Is this merely because the war was so utterly irrelevant, or are there sinister forces at play behind the amnesia?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[mike hill]

It is yet another shame that ENT Minefield needlestly showed a Rom ship cloaking even though the dialogue from TOS BoT made it quite clear that it was a newly presented ability for them. Spock even talked about it as theoretical - not something that had been observed in action a hundred years before!

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

The Romulans were also stated to not have warp drive, so how they managed to fight an interstellar war, including reaching the Sol System, is kinda baffling.

 

[AresB]

Both can be easily explained.

At the Battle of Pahvo, Starfleet learned to counter the "traditional" cloaking device used so far by the Klingons and Romulans. Over the next decade, the Romulans devised a new one that used completely different type of technology. The battle between stealth and sensor tech is constant and continues over the centuries.

And the mention of the BoP (and that particular weapon testbed ship) using "standard impulse" refers to its power source, not its drive. It had warp nacelles, they just weren't powered by matter-antimatter annihilation but by fusion reactors.

 

[mike hill]

I agree totally that Scotties line in BoT suggests a fusion powered warp.
But, this canon line (also from BoT) seems to contradict later STD canon:-
KIRK: I don't see anything. I can't understand it.

SPOCK: Invisibility is theoretically possible, Captain, with selective bending of light. But the power cost is enormous.
They may have solved that problem.

Spock said invisibility is theoretically possible. Not that the Klingons had it 15 years at at Pahvo, or the Romulans had it 100 years ago but we overcame both.

In BoT, cloaking technology is presented as a new Rom technology, which paired with the bunker busting plasma weapon on the Praetors testbed ship.

 

[AresB]

That line can be written off as an explanation for 60's audience, the later standard canon (I assume that's what you mean with std) isn't bound by it. The sensors of a 23rd century starship wouldn't be dependent on visible light only; the new cloak fooled them on bandwidths that weren't thought possible.

 

[Timo]

It is yet another shame that ENT Minefield needlestly showed a Rom ship cloaking even though the dialogue from TOS BoT made it quite clear that it was a newly presented ability for them. Spock even talked about it as theoretical - not something that had been observed in action a hundred years before!

And Spock was dead wrong there. He himself had witnessed a ship appearing from nowhere in a previous adventure, "Charlie X": trying to claim that some sort of a theoretical invisibility device is the likeliest explanation for the same happening again makes no sense.

Invisibility of the "surprise the enemy" sort is quite unlikely to ever have been anything to write home about: any enemy worth the bandanna should have that ability, be it due to stealth, speed or jamming, and Starfleet should have standing orders regarding such things. And even bona fide failure to cast a shadow is highly unlikely to come as a surprise to somebody in the 2260s, really: we soon learn that invisibility is commonplace and humdrum, and there's no reason to think this would be a new development. It always was commonplace and humdrum in the Trek universe, regardless of whether humans stumbled on it or not. And Kirk being the first to stumble on it is implausible, whilst "Minefield" is plausible (and only comes after "Unexpected" anyway - Archer saw an invisible ship right off the bat, just as he should!).

(Now, DSC repeats the very same thing in "Vulcan Hello", with the heroes agonizing that the Klingon ability to appear from nowhere is new, surprising and inexplicable. But both "Vulcan Hello" and "Balance of Terror" are at fault in the exact same manner, making general, overarching observations about the capabilities of a mere specific culture. In both cases it would suffice that the ability of Villain X to go invisible is surprising; in both, the ability an sich is.)

The Romulans were also stated to not have warp drive, so how they managed to fight an interstellar war, including reaching the Sol System, is kinda baffling.

Nobody ever says the Romulans lacked warp drive.

The Romulan ship the heroes met was claimed to lack warp drive, which is a completely different thing (I can't fly; I'm a man, and man can fly). And the claim was probably dead wrong anyway, with Scotty being fooled by this submarine-like vessel that switches from diesels to electrics as the tactical situation warrants. Just a few episodes later, Romulan ships of this exact same shape perform warp intercepts with ease and without comment.

What we learn from Insurrection is that humans feel warp drive transformed Romulans from thugs to an empire. We never learn when this might have happened. But there's no indication Earth was fighting thugs in the 22nd century war, and indeed "Balance of Terror" makes a pretty direct reference to them being the Romulan Star Empire ever since the old war (that is, we see a map with this very name writ large for the enemy territory, despite the fact that nobody has interacted with the Romulans after that old war).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[somebuddyX]

The closest we got to the Romulan War was maybe a future season of Enterprise and the In The Beginning film. I think people get caught up too much in Balance of Terror's details and trying to rationalise something that was very early in the show's run and trying to make it all fit together neatly and yet a bloke that looks exactly like Sarek is on the viewscreen trying to shoot the crap out of the Enterprise.

 

[valkyrie013]

Not much known, Some stuff as it being from 2156-2160 and ended with the Battle of Cheron are commonly accepted, but as said, not really "cannon" in that it hasn't really been said in episodes.
Between Earth and the Romulans, with the Federation a result in 2161.
Other than that, its completly open to interpretation and fan writings.
I Honestly hope that one day ( Soon.. I'm not getting any younger) that a movie or series will tackle the Romulan war.

EDIT:
a guy that took the Fusion powered warp to the next level is this site. I like that his version, it takes MONTHS to get to a battle, and worry about fuel etc. Romulans are Fusion powered, and the Earth fleet has the advantage of an Antimatter reactor.
Even takes it to the point of the Romluans only having Fusion till the BoP in Tos, after the Klingon trade.
https://www.starfleet-museum.org/

 

[ChallengerHK]

I think people get caught up too much in Balance of Terror's details and trying to rationalise something that was very early in the show's run and trying to make it all fit together neatly

There are two ways to approach an issue like this:

• Searching for a diegetic solution, an explanation which works within the fictional universe. This is frequently made difficult by other in-universe data. It's also the source of most canon debates, and a major reason why canonical consistency can be considered important by many.
• Searching for a extradiegetic solution, which typically takes the form of "this was caused by some limitation on the production," e.g., lack of money, being early in the production, etc.

They can both be true, but I see a lot of people arguing at cross purposes because of this. The people looking for a diegetic solution are not trying to find the extradiegetic solution, and tend to view it as "an easy out." The people looking for the extradiegetic solution tend to hold the thought process that the diegetic solution is much ado about nothing, now just go enjoy the show.

 

[1001001]

The difference being the external solution is almost always the factually correct one.

The internal solutions are almost always wild speculation and mental gymnastics to explain something that can't be explained that way.

Add to that how some people actually argue and get upset while discussing the "possible" internal solutions, and that's where it all gets really weird.

 

[Shawnster]

The Romulan Bird of Prey could have, in theory, been a sublight vessel launched from a warp capable starship carrier. Or it could have had a detachable warp ring similar to the Kenobi's fighter in "Attack of the Clones." Granted, later episodes and series seem to preclude either possibility but it's a possible retcon that could work within the limits of the episode.

 

[ChallengerHK]

The difference being the external solution is almost always the factually correct one.

The internal solutions are almost always wild speculation and mental gymnastics to explain something that can't be explained that way.

Add to that how some people actually argue and get upset while discussing the "possible" internal solutions, and that's where it all gets really weird.

I mostly agree. I'm not sure how the extradiegetic solution can be called "correct" though. It's extradiegetically correct, to be sure. It might have zero relation to the diegetic solution(s), which do sometimes get crazy because the diegetic material is frequently hard to reconcile.

 

[The Wormhole]

What's the story on the Romulan War? All I can remember is that the Romulans went to war with Earth and possibly other worlds. Planets bandied together to form the UFP after having won the war against the Romulans. What episodes and films can we reference and cite?

Pretty much all the canonical information about the Romulan War comes from TOS Balance of Terror.

It is yet another shame that ENT Minefield needlestly showed a Rom ship cloaking even though the dialogue from TOS BoT made it quite clear that it was a newly presented ability for them. Spock even talked about it as theoretical - not something that had been observed in action a hundred years before!

Shortly after Minefield aired, Braga did an interview in which he admitted they screwed up by having the Romulan ship cloaking in the episode and actually issued an apology to fandom over it.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Nobody ever says the Romulans lacked warp drive.

The Romulan ship the heroes met was claimed to lack warp drive, which is a completely different thing (I can't fly; I'm a man, and man can fly). And the claim was probably dead wrong anyway, with Scotty being fooled by this submarine-like vessel that switches from diesels to electrics as the tactical situation warrants. Just a few episodes later, Romulan ships of this exact same shape perform warp intercepts with ease and without comment.

Timo Saloniemi

The Romulans in TNG were using quantum singularities to power their warp drive, a unique technology not seen elsewhere. It could be that this was part of their new stealth tech (no sign of antimatter anywhere) that successfully fooled Scotty into believing he was dealing with an impulse ship.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Shortly after Minefield aired, Braga did an interview in which he admitted they screwed up by having the Romulan ship cloaking in the episode and actually issued an apology to fandom over it.

FWIW, here's how the novelverse chose to deal with that...

Spoiler

The Romulan BOP seen in "Minefield" cloaks and decloaks at random because it's a prototype and is malfunctioning. Eventually the ship self-destructs because the cloaking device requires so much power, and it takes over a century before the Romulan fleet manages to build another ship which can successfully cloak.

 

[ChallengerHK]

The Romulans in TNG were using quantum singularities

A little bit of an aside. Does "quantum singularity" have any real world meaning, or is it Treknobabble?

 

[MAGolding]

And Spock was dead wrong there. He himself had witnessed a ship appearing from nowhere in a previous adventure, "Charlie X": trying to claim that some sort of a theoretical invisibility device is the likeliest explanation for the same happening again makes no sense.
Timo Saloniemi

You are assuming 1) that all of the TOS epiodes happen in one single timeline one after the other, and 2) that you know which order they happen in.

And it is myopinion that in any long fictional series of highly episodic stories, it is more logical to assume that each and every episode tells the story of something which could psosibly happen to the protagonists, and thus which does happen to them in at least one of gazillions of alternate universes. In my opinion you should think of the creators of long lasting highly episodic series as examining gazilions of altrnate universes and slecting tens or hudnreds of strories from them to depict.

It seems to me that the creators of most 20th century comedies and dramas and melodramas and adventure series though of each story as something which the protagonist might experience, and that most creators didn't think about continuity with other episodes at all, except when writing episodes which were specifically sequels to other episodes.

And the only way to make sense out of a series created which such lack of care for continuity is to assume that almsot every episode in the series happens in an alternate universe of its own.

To say nothing of the extreme improbability of the protagonists of a long lasting adventure series surviing tens or hundreds of episodes in which their chnces of survival are as low as in an average episodes of that series. The survival of the protagonists of an adventure series is much more probable if the typical adenture they face is is the first and only really dangerous adventurre they have faced or will face during that particula alternate universe.

And it would be far more probably for the protagonists to remain mentally healty after a long space p missions if they were in extreme dnager in only one episode instead of in tens or hudnreds of episodes one after the other.

So I don't believe that Spock in "Balance of Terror" had ever seen a Thasian ship appear out of nowhere in "Charlie X". Instead I think that "Charlie X" and "Balance of terror" happened in alternate universes.

 

[Henoch]

The Romulans in TNG were using quantum singularities to power their warp drive, a unique technology not seen elsewhere. It could be that this was part of their new stealth tech (no sign of antimatter anywhere) that successfully fooled Scotty into believing he was dealing with an impulse ship.

In BOT, the Commander said, "He's a sorcerer, that one. He reads the thoughts in my brain. Our fuel supply all but gone and he stays out of reach." and later, "We've damaged ourselves. Our fuel reserve is gone." This issue with fuel reserves doesn't sound like they are using a quantum singularity, rather, their power and maybe propulsion is using fuel. Combine with the simple impulse comment, and it sounds like fusion reactors. I'm thinking the quantum singularity came after the TOS era as an answer to their power supply problem and a substitute/replacement for M/AM reactors.