Why was the Constitution refit never seen in TNG or thereafter/

[Timo]

In that sense, we could say that Picard's Galaxy was a refit of Kirk's Constitution. That is, no, it wasn't, but the two are superficially similar and one is bigger than the other.

I'll also take the opportunity to nitpick that we haven't canonically seen a Daedalus yet. Yes, we have seen a sphere-and-cylinder ship, or desktop model thereof at any rate, but that one had no class name attached. And yes, we've heard of the Daedalus class, but that one had no visuals attached.

Curiously, though, the unseen Daedalus had a fairly large crew of 229, or at least some evil aliens claimed so. Even with spheres that are more voluminous than similar-diameter saucers, this suggests a ship more like Kirk's... Thus perhaps of Olympic size after all.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[David cgc]

and then the have enterprise saying they have been studying gaseous anomalies towards the end of of the movie like we forgot that it was the excelsior.

They were seeding the "gaseous anomalies" thing to set up the end of the movie. Rule of three, mention it at the beginning, then in the middle, where a cut scene showing Kirk giving Gorkon and his entourage the promised tour of the Enterprise mentioned the whole fleet was studying them, and then pay it off at the end. Unfortunately, the middle scene was removed, so it ends up being a little confused. Probably because it was redundant or made it too obvious that the gas sensors were going to be important later, though it's also the scene with the infamous "Would you let your daughter marry one?" line from a crewman to Uhura.

 

[Timo]

It's a Meyerism, too, a more or less direct reference to the International Year of Geophysics, an excuse for superpowers to do military things with big instruments planetwide. When we see Kirk promote Starfleet's "scientific" stance, we're probably also supposed to suddenly see Sulu's mission in context, as a thoroughly dishonest intel operation deep in Klingon waters...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Wormhole]

wasnt the USS Pasteur (in All Good Things) essentially a refit Daedalus?

No. "Refit Daedalus" means they took a Daedalus class ship and modified it. The Pasteur and Olympic class is an entirely new ship and ship class. Yes, it resembles the Daedalus, but that does not make it a refit of the Daedalus. You wouldn't call the Akira class an NX refit, would you?

 

[Henoch]

Curiously, though, the unseen Daedalus had a fairly large crew of 229, or at least some evil aliens claimed so. Even with spheres that are more voluminous than similar-diameter saucers, this suggests a ship more like Kirk's... Thus perhaps of Olympic size after all.

DAX: They really packed them in on these old ships. - DS9, "Trials and Tribble-ations"

 

[Dukhat]

In that sense, we could say that Picard's Galaxy was a refit of Kirk's Constitution. That is, no, it wasn't, but the two are superficially similar and one is bigger than the other.

I'll also take the opportunity to nitpick that we haven't canonically seen a Daedalus yet. Yes, we have seen a sphere-and-cylinder ship, or desktop model thereof at any rate, but that one had no class name attached. And yes, we've heard of the Daedalus class, but that one had no visuals attached.

Curiously, though, the unseen Daedalus had a fairly large crew of 229, or at least some evil aliens claimed so. Even with spheres that are more voluminous than similar-diameter saucers, this suggests a ship more like Kirk's... Thus perhaps of Olympic size after all.

Plus, it was implied in “A Piece of the Action” that the U.S.S. Horizon (referred to as Daedalus class in the ST Encyclopedia) actually landed on the planet. Not only do I not see the ball-and-nacelles desktop model ship having this capability, but I also don’t see 230 crew members crammed into a 105 meter long ship.

 

[JesterFace]

About Enterprise-D and Galaxy class, I think it would have been better if Galaxy class didn't appear in DS9 or at least not as much as it did. Watching a Galaxy class ship first been blown up in 'The Jem'Hadar' and later being damaged in battles was kind of slap in the face for TNG fans.

MEMORY ALPHA says: "The choice to make the Odyssey a Galaxy-class starship was to demonstrate that the Jem'Hadar could have destroyed the Enterprise-D, had the ship appeared in the episode, and to make the Dominion threat all the more terrifying." - end quote

No, not cool. There might have been some other ways to demonstrate that the Dominion was a serious threat.

And the way the Odyssey was destroyed is kind of weird. Dominion ships were able to fire through the shields. Okay.... but did they do so much damage to the Odyssey that they had absolutely no shields left when the Jme'Hadar ship crashed into the Odyssey? If they had any shields the enemy ship would just bounce off, right?

What if TNG had taken a Constitution class ship or something else very familiar from TOS and destroyed it? No, just no.

 

[Paul755]

I don’t see it as a slap in the face, I mean was it disrespectful to have the Iconian computer virus destroy the Yamato?

I think the producers got the desired effect. I mean, there isn’t the same kind of “oh crap” moment if they had destroyed a Miranda or Excelsior class. Especially since they were able to take the Odyssey out with such relative ease.

 

[Dukhat]

About Enterprise-D and Galaxy class, I think it would have been better if Galaxy class didn't appear in DS9 or at least not as much as it did. Watching a Galaxy class ship first been blown up in 'The Jem'Hadar' and later being damaged in battles was kind of slap in the face for TNG fans.

MEMORY ALPHA says: "The choice to make the Odyssey a Galaxy-class starship was to demonstrate that the Jem'Hadar could have destroyed the Enterprise-D, had the ship appeared in the episode, and to make the Dominion threat all the more terrifying." - end quote

No, not cool. There might have been some other ways to demonstrate that the Dominion was a serious threat.

And the way the Odyssey was destroyed is kind of weird. Dominion ships were able to fire through the shields. Okay.... but did they do so much damage to the Odyssey that they had absolutely no shields left when the Jme'Hadar ship crashed into the Odyssey? If they had any shields the enemy ship would just bounce off, right?

What if TNG had taken a Constitution class ship or something else very familiar from TOS and destroyed it? No, just no.

Sorry, don’t agree. Destroying a Galaxy class ship was the perfect way to show the danger of the Dominion. And it wasn’t the ‘slap in the face to TNG fans’ that you’re trying to make it out to be.

 

[Shawnster]

I don’t see it as a slap in the face, I mean was it disrespectful to have the Iconian computer virus destroy the Yamato?

I think the producers got the desired effect. I mean, there isn’t the same kind of “oh crap” moment if they had destroyed a Miranda or Excelsior class. Especially since they were able to take the Odyssey out with such relative ease.

The Nitpicker's Guide to DS9 mentioned that it was like salt in the wound. We see the Odyssey destroyed in June 1994 then the Enterprise-D destroyed 5 months later. The visual loss of 2 Galaxy Class starships within such a short time was like a gut punch to the audience.

 

[Amasov]

Doesn't non-canon literature state somewhere that the Enterprise-A was a newly-built, but, yet-to-be-named starship that later was named Enterprise? Or am I confusing that with it already being a previously-established ship that was renamed Enterprise? I can never remember.

I always thought the A was newer Constitution class simply because the interior seen at the end of The Voyage Home and The Final Frontier (albeit redesigned) suggests it's starting to take on the TNG look. Then, of course, Undiscovered Country throws all of that away anyway.

 

[Paul755]

there are two conflicting accounts I believe. Both involve a pre-built ship being rechristened. One version it was a brand new ship, the other states it was the USS Yorktown that was just re-named.

 

[Paul755]

From Memory Alpha...

While the ship's history before its recommissioning as Enterprise has never been officially stated, several non-canon sources (such as the AMT/Ertl Model kit documentation) have claimed it to formerly be the USS Yorktown (NCC-1717); others cite it as the newly-built (but not yet commissioned) USS Ti-Ho (NCC-1798), or the also newly-built USS Atlantis (NCC-1786). Captain Scott alludes to the ship being newly built in the ship's log of Star Trek V: The Final Frontier, stating "This new ship must have been built by monkeys".

Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise, released shortly after Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, cites the origin of NCC-1701-A as the USS Ti-Ho (NCC-1798), a Constitution-class II starship which was a test bed for transwarp technology alongside the USS Excelsior. The Ti-Ho was rechristened Enterprise after Kirk and his crew were exonerated.

 

[Dukhat]

The Nitpicker's Guide to DS9 mentioned that it was like salt in the wound. We see the Odyssey destroyed in June 1994 then the Enterprise-D destroyed 5 months later. The visual loss of 2 Galaxy Class starships within such a short time was like a gut punch to the audience.

Funny, I was in the ‘audience’ and didn’t feel gut-punched. If anything, I was more annoyed that the Enterprise-D was destroyed in such a stupid way.

 

[Tuskin38]

Watching a Galaxy class ship first been blown up in 'The Jem'Hadar' and later being damaged in battles was kind of slap in the face for TNG fans.

I think you're overreacting a bit.

It's not a slap in the face of the fans, it was a plot point, just like the Yamato being destroyed by the Iconian virus in 'Contagion'

What if TNG had taken a Constitution class ship or something else very familiar from TOS and destroyed it? No, just no.

There would have been nothing wrong with doing that either.

 

[Imaus]

I think you're overreacting a bit.

It's not a slap in the face of the fans, it was a plot point, just like the Yamato being destroyed by the Iconian virus in 'Contagion'


There would have been nothing wrong with doing that either.

Yea, they're ships...they explode sometimes.

 

[Paul755]

Funny, I was in the ‘audience’ and didn’t feel gut-punched. If anything, I was more annoyed that the Enterprise-D was destroyed in such a stupid way.

I remember being gut punched...I was a kid though.

 

[Phoenix219]

and then the have enterprise saying they have been studying gaseous anomalies towards the end of of the movie like we forgot that it was the excelsior.

Maybe it was supposed to be the Excelsior shooting the doctored torpedo to save the day?

 

[Timo]

But as said, another scene was also filmed that specifically put the gas sniffers aboard the Enterprise, too.

I loved the fact that TPTB not only destroyed the E-D under another name in "Jem'Hadar", but also killed Picard under another name. Keogh is the same character, down to having a nemesis in the DS9 team. And he goes down the way Picard would, protecting the weak heroes till the very last, even though it was the errors of the heroes that precipitated the crisis in the first place.

It's just titillating to think that Keogh himself apparently made a single fatal error: when finding out that his shields were no good, he in all probability ordered them dropped and the power diverted. Would Picard have made that error, too?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[F. King Daniel]

4. The wrecked saucer was again used as a stand-in when the Galaxy class U.S.S. Odyssey was destroyed in “The Jem’Hadar.” It was supposed to represent the Odyssey’s saucer being destroyed, despite it not being the same class.

What the fuuuuuuuck it's been 20 years and I never noticed that until I rewatched the scene just now. The totally differently shaped nacelle is really blatant. If that happened today fans would be livid, "why does the destroyed Odyssey only show 11 decks in the saucer??!!", "lazy VFX people couldn't be bothered to get a nacelle from an AMT Enterprise-D!!"

 

[AlanC9]

"Gut punch"? Are Trek fans so fragile?