STAR TREK V DIRECTOR´S CUT

[K1productions]

The issue was that at the time, Paramount's plan was to have both the new Enterprise-D crew have the TV adventures on TNG, and the old crew were to have adventures in the films, concurrently, on the Enterprise-A. The inherent problem with this scenario, however, was that the old crew were past their prime for this, not to mention that the TNG crew started to overshadow them (which Shatner, Nimoy and the rest did not expect to have happen.) It would have been different had the future films dealt with the old crew going their separate ways, but TFF blew that idea out of the water by essentially putting the entire cast right back to where they were in TOS. It was unrealistic, it ultimately didn't work, and a final film had to be made to pretty much address this inherent problem.

Which Undiscovered Country essentially did. They were rounded up from one more mission while they were mostly doing their own thing, like Uhura hosting a seminar at the Academy, and Sulu already having left for the Excelsior.

What I feel should have happened though is, The Next Generation should have still been in the 23rd Century, running alongside the films, allowing for crossover between them. The occasional cameo like how we saw McCoy, Spock, and Scotty, but also potential cameos from the show into the movies. Now it wouldn't have been the Enterprise-D of course, as it should have been the Excelsior being the new hero crew of the TV series. Come Star Trek VI, Sulu would simply have to get a different ship... and y'know what? Have Picard and his crew on the Excelsior saving Kirk and crew at Khitomer. That would have been the PERFECT crossover moment and final farewell to the TOS cast.
And this would have prevented the issue where technology progressed so slowly between the 23rd and 24th centuries. If they were at the same time, seeing the TNG sets in Undiscovered Country would no longer have been odd.

 

[Dukhat]

Which Undiscovered Country essentially did. They were rounded up from one more mission while they were mostly doing their own thing, like Uhura hosting a seminar at the Academy, and Sulu already having left for the Excelsior.

What I feel should have happened though is, The Next Generation should have still been in the 23rd Century, running alongside the films, allowing for crossover between them. The occasional cameo like how we saw McCoy, Spock, and Scotty, but also potential cameos from the show into the movies. Now it wouldn't have been the Enterprise-D of course, as it should have been the Excelsior being the new hero crew of the TV series. Come Star Trek VI, Sulu would simply have to get a different ship... and y'know what? Have Picard and his crew on the Excelsior saving Kirk and crew at Khitomer. That would have been the PERFECT crossover moment and final farewell to the TOS cast.
And this would have prevented the issue where technology progressed so slowly between the 23rd and 24th centuries. If they were at the same time, seeing the TNG sets in Undiscovered Country would no longer have been odd.

I agree with your assessment that TVH should have naturally segued into TNG, with the Enterprise-A being the new hero ship (but with a different model representing it than the TMP Enterprise at the end of the film), with the TOS cast mixing in with the new cast, with the intent of having them eventually phased out in favor of the newbies, just like what would have happened with Phase II, and that no more TOS films would be made after TVH. Unfortunately Paramount, Roddenberry, and the TOS actors had completely different plans regarding this, as Gene wanted the new show to be as far removed from the films as could be, and the TOS actors did not believe that they would ever be overshadowed by TNG, Shatner and Nimoy being quite vocal about that opinion. Not to mention the ridiculously high salaries the TOS cast would have asked for for a television production. That simply was not going to happen.

 

[Phoenix219]

The issue was that at the time, Paramount's plan was to have both the new Enterprise-D crew have the TV adventures on TNG, and the old crew were to have adventures in the films, concurrently, on the Enterprise-A. The inherent problem with this scenario, however, was that the old crew were past their prime for this, not to mention that the TNG crew started to overshadow them (which Shatner, Nimoy and the rest did not expect to have happen.) It would have been different had the future films dealt with the old crew going their separate ways, but TFF blew that idea out of the water by essentially putting the entire cast right back to where they were in TOS. It was unrealistic, it ultimately didn't work, and a final film had to be made to pretty much address this inherent problem.

I would argue that TFF set up the crew perfectly to have a future of wide open possibilities on the silver screen, and the biggest disappointment for me was that instead, they retired them! I didn't want to see it come to a close, just as the previous movie set them up on a new ship for new adventures! I would have rather seen them head up the TNG crew, and seen their next 5YM! But at least a few extra movies with exploring and adventure before the end!

 

[K1productions]

I agree with your assessment that TVH should have naturally segued into TNG, with the Enterprise-A being the new hero ship (but with a different model representing it than the TMP Enterprise at the end of the film), with the TOS cast mixing in with the new cast, with the intent of having them eventually phased out in favor of the newbies, just like what would have happened with Phase II, and that no more TOS films would be made after TVH. Unfortunately Paramount, Roddenberry, and the TOS actors had completely different plans regarding this, as Gene wanted the new show to be as far removed from the films as could be, and the TOS actors did not believe that they would ever be overshadowed by TNG, Shatner and Nimoy being quite vocal about that opinion. Not to mention the ridiculously high salaries the TOS cast would have asked for for a television production. That simply was not going to happen.

Oh no no no, leave the TOS cast out of the TV series regular cast. TOS cast can keep their Enterprise-A for the films, and have the TNG cast on the Excelsior, since it was the "brand new experimental starship" and with its enhanced Transwarp Drive (not the same thing that Voyager would steal the name for) it could go much farther much faster, allowing for greater exploration. You could have the same TNG cast all around, and most of the same stories. The only real difference is we would have to segway into an alliance with the Klingons, BUT you could still have Worf on board (it was kinda dumb how the beginning of TNG portrayed it as an equal alliance yet Worf was the only officer on a Federation ship).

 

[Dukhat]

I would argue that TFF set up the crew perfectly to have a future of wide open possibilities on the silver screen, and the biggest disappointment for me was that instead, they retired them! I didn't want to see it come to a close, just as the previous movie set them up on a new ship for new adventures! I would have rather seen them head up the TNG crew, and seen their next 5YM! But at least a few extra movies with exploring and adventure before the end!

And I would counter-argue that TFF showed precisely why that cast should not have been continuing on like they were all reliving their TOS days. All of the character development they gained in the first four films was erased like it had never existed, and they were all just played for cheap laughs. It was embarrassing to watch.

 

[Pauln6]

And I would counter-argue that TFF showed precisely why that cast should not have been continuing on like they were all reliving their TOS days. All of the character development they gained in the first four films was erased like it had never existed, and they were all just played for cheap laughs. It was embarrassing to watch.

Hokey plot aside (let's be honest, TVH was worse) it's the way that the characters have edged too far into caricature that bothers me the most about this and TUC.

Admittedly, I'd redub some of the dialogue if I could. Asking Spock to kill an unarmed man? Wow.

 

[drt]

There weren't many fans clamoring for a Directors Edition of The Motion Picture either. It just sorta came out of nowhere, but the results were appreciated, resulting in either Directors or Collectors editions of every film to follow (to varying degrees of... specialness (if that isn't a word, it should be))

I don't remember the reasoning for the DE either. I do recall it was the last of the Trek movies to be released on DVD, but it was considered by most to be the second worst of the lot, so it's somewhat odd Paramount (notorious for being cheapskates even back then) would put in any effort beyond a bare-bones release.

To be fair about this point, at the end of TVH, the entire crew is acting like the Enterprise-A is their new assignment, even though it was only Kirk who was given command of the ship and the rest of the crew were either already commanders or captains themselves. It really didn't make a whole lot of sense.

I can't remember if it was in a novelization, novel or fanon, but there was an idea at the time that the rest were also being held accoutable for their role in hijacking Enterprise by being put back into their old jobs instead of being given better positions, which does makes sense.

 

[Ssosmcin]

By that reasoning, the only person being rewarded for saving Earth, then, is Kirk. Because in no way is being demoted to Captain and given a new Enterprise a punishment. It’s not even a “pretend” punishment. Since Kirk didn’t do it alone, they all have to be rewarded, first by dropping all charges and then probably by being given the option to keep the family together. Sulu stuck around until Stiles stepped down as Captain of Excelsior.

Of all the crew, the only one who seemed interested in command (aside from Kirk) was Sulu. Chekov was happy as tactical chief (and kept his hand in the science position on Reliant). Uhura seemed fine staying in the communications area. Scotty had his engines, Bones seemed to be along for the ride and Spock was content to be “a lesser target” while serving with Kirk. Not every officer is aiming for Command and not every one moving up would be offered one. There is no reason at all why Chekov would be offered his own ship, really.

They were in the twilight of their careers, they were done moving up. So in gratitude, they were left alone to be on the Enterprise, knowing a happy crew is a hard working crew.

 

[Dukhat]

But all the charges were dropped except for the one aimed solely at Kirk. And the rest of the crew didn't seem particularly upset or angry about any kind of possible demotion or punishment.

And while I've always felt that Starfleet gave Kirk a ship more as a reward than a punishment, I've also felt that it was always meant to be temporary and last-minute, until the Enterprise-B was finished construction. But again, it was just for Kirk. They gave him a ship to fly around in, but his former crew were under no obligation to join him. It was almost like none of them had anything better to do with their time, which I find quite unrealistic. Perhaps if they were there just temporarily until the new crew was ready, I could understand.

 

[Ssosmcin]

But all the charges were dropped except for the one aimed solely at Kirk. And the rest of the crew don't seem particularly upset or angry about any kind of possible demotion or punishment.

Right, exactly, and that was just a "haha no but really, good job, here's your fondest wish."

After that, it actually makes sense they're all still together, because they're just riding out their careers until retirement. Except Sulu, who is jonesing for command.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Hokey plot aside (let's be honest, TVH was worse) it's the way that the characters have edged too far into caricature that bothers me the most about this and TUC.

Yeah, part of the problem was the demand for comedy. Either Paramount was convinced that's wht TVH was a huge hit or they felt that people wouldn't take the old, weight gaining cast seriously as galaxy saving heroes. If TUC didn't have as many gags and anacronisms and really went for the darkness Meyer pretended to, it would have been a film that holds up a lot better than it does.

Nick Meyer didn't make a "Star Trek" movie, he made a pet project. As soneone who was in the arts for a number of years, I get it. A director has a right to put his vision on screen. However, a director of a franchise film also has a responsibility to play within the rules. Much like a writer of a tie-in novel. The characters were, as you say, "edged into caricature": and they were also out of character and, again, over the top.

 

[Captain Atkin]

Talk about the potential of a Star Trek V cut made the news at Trek Report this week, and even got Shatner's attention!

 

[Pauln6]

Yeah, part of the problem was the demand for comedy. Either Paramount was convinced that's wht TVH was a huge hit or they felt that people wouldn't take the old, weight gaining cast seriously as galaxy saving heroes. If TUC didn't have as many gags and anacronisms and really went for the darkness Meyer pretended to, it would have been a film that holds up a lot better than it does.

Nick Meyer didn't make a "Star Trek" movie, he made a pet project. As soneone who was in the arts for a number of years, I get it. A director has a right to put his vision on screen. However, a director of a franchise film also has a responsibility to play within the rules. Much like a writer of a tie-in novel. The characters were, as you say, "edged into caricature": and they were also out of character and, again, over the top.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. TVH had comedy that felt reasonably natural (Chekov edged a bit into buffoonery admittedly but it worked in context). I do think they could have exploited Nichelle's comic talents a bit more though.

TFF and TUC had their moments but a lot of them were overly contrived or forced. The comedy needed a polish.

 

[K1productions]

I think you've hit the nail on the head. TVH had comedy that felt reasonably natural (Chekov edged a bit into buffoonery admittedly but it worked in context). I do think they could have exploited Nichelle's comic talents a hit more though.

TFF and TUC had their moments but a lot of them were overly contrived or forced. The comedy needed a polish.

The only ones who seemed to get the comedy right were Shatner, Nimoy, and Kelley. Everyone else floundered, and they had to basically make mockeries of their characters for a cheap laugh. Scotty banging his head after saying he knows the ship like the back of his hand, and Uhura fumbling around with a language book to speak horrible Klingon when it should be her JOB to be a good linguist. I mean, you have a computer right in front of you that was displaying an "English to Phoenetic Klingon" screen... why the frak did you need all those books? Are they honestly trying to tell me thumbing through books and piecing sentences together was faster than the Enterprise computer?

 

[Grant]

Talk about the potential of a Star Trek V cut made the news at Trek Report this week, and even got Shatner's attention!

Wow the stuntman even commented on the deleted scene with DeForest Kelley in that article. That was one of the scenes I thought could be put back in the movie as it gave dr. McCoy a little doctoring to perform in the movie

 

[Ssosmcin]

In TUC, Chekov in particular was made to look really stupid. As security chief, he didn't know about the "unauthorized phaser" rule (which - admittedly - came out of nowhere); not noticing crewman Dax's feet; the "inalienable human rights" line was painful; and the way he said "cloaked??!!!"

Honestly, Nicky Meyer's direction was goofy. He overdirected his background people, crowding the sets with men and woman who overindicated everything. Everything was "over." When they were doing the search for the boots, he had a dozen crewman in like one room and then the guy with the muffin tin on a stick and 3D glasses saying "coming through, coming through!" He could not have been taking it seriously. It was camp.

I still hate the "I can't believe I kissed you!" "It must've been your lifelong ambition!" First, the spit screen is terrible. Second, Shatner's facial tics are wild and don't match the shots before or after. Third, it's too meta. Shatner has the ego, not Kirk. Slice that one joke out and the sceuqnece is great. But yet another laugh defuses the tension.

At least The Voyage Home was meant to be a nice time at the movies. TUC was supposed to make up for Star Trek V and give the crew a great sendoff. I liked it at the time, but the years have not been kind at all. There are just as many gags in this as in V. Nick Meyer was smoking his own cigar a bit too long.

 

[Pauln6]

The only ones who seemed to get the comedy right were Shatner, Nimoy, and Kelley. Everyone else floundered, and they had to basically make mockeries of their characters for a cheap laugh. Scotty banging his head after saying he knows the ship like the back of his hand, and Uhura fumbling around with a language book to speak horrible Klingon when it should be her JOB to be a good linguist. I mean, you have a computer right in front of you that was displaying an "English to Phoenetic Klingon" screen... why the frak did you need all those books? Are they honestly trying to tell me thumbing through books and piecing sentences together was faster than the Enterprise computer?

Yeah Uhura could have muted the comms, had the computer say the line, switched comms back on, and repeated the line. It's even a Galaxy Quest in-joke.

I would have credited Uhura as security chief more than Chekov tbh. He was always more sciency, although he was believable as a tactical officer. She rocked in Mirror Mirror, and TSFS. Plus... Fan dancing.

Why was TFF so sexist? The only women in the crew were Uhura and Kirk's yeoman, and even then she only got the job via nepotism. TMP had loads of women in the crew.

 

[Vger23]

Yeah, part of the problem was the demand for comedy. Either Paramount was convinced that's wht TVH was a huge hit or they felt that people wouldn't take the old, weight gaining cast seriously as galaxy saving heroes. If TUC didn't have as many gags and anacronisms and really went for the darkness Meyer pretended to, it would have been a film that holds up a lot better than it does.

Nick Meyer didn't make a "Star Trek" movie, he made a pet project. As soneone who was in the arts for a number of years, I get it. A director has a right to put his vision on screen. However, a director of a franchise film also has a responsibility to play within the rules. Much like a writer of a tie-in novel. The characters were, as you say, "edged into caricature": and they were also out of character and, again, over the top.

I agree entirely with the part I bolded above, and it's one of the reasons TUC comes across poorly to me. Right down to the movie's subtitle, which he wanted for TWOK originally ( it was a stretch for that film and an even worse stretch for VI). It's a massive self-indulgence by Meyer that did not come across naturally for me.

 

[K1productions]

I agree entirely with the part I bolded above, and it's one of the reasons TUC comes across poorly to me. Right down to the movie's subtitle, which he wanted for TWOK originally ( it was a stretch for that film and an even worse stretch for VI). It's a massive self-indulgence by Meyer that did not come across naturally for me.

Interesting how every single time Nick Meyer is involved in a Star Trek film, a character is quoting Shakespeare or Melville. Is he incapable of getting his point across without trying to fake it so hard?

 

[Grant]

Paramount required Nicholas Meyer to put in the supposed funny stuff in Trek 6. They still couldn't get over Star Trek 4 being funny and being a big hit. Didn't matter to them whether there was any actual reason for jokes to be in there as there was in Star Trek 4. Funny Star Trek equaled successful Star Trek to the studio at that point. When the Nichelle Nichols complained about the stupid translation scene to Nicholas Meyer he said "it's over my head let's just get it over with." There was always going to be more comedy in Star Trek 6 than was actually required for the story. And Chekov basically went back to being the "funny one" that he was on the TV series. Nicholas Myers wrote Wrath of Khan and all the funny parts -- as many as there were -- we're organic to the characters and the story -- they weren't just thrown in.