Would you say Picard is prime timeline or part of the Discoverse?

[Lord Garth]

Which is inline with continuity from Enterprise that the warrior caste was seeing a growing in power, indicating other segments of the Empire also existed.

On a related note, since I've just watched ENT in its entirety, there's something I picked up. There are different factions within the Klingon Empire who aren't on the same page. The Suliban wanted to destabilize the Empire, but it seems as if that destabilization was already on its way to happening anyway. So not only are there different castes, but different wings and different lanes within those castes.

Which ties into the beginning of DSC. Things must've fallen apart shortly after ENT and the Augment Virus probably didn't help matters. So the Klingons were in too much disarray for the next 100 years to be of any threat to Earth or the Federation, which then gave the Federation time to grow.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I got the impression there were always different factions in the Empire, all the way through the late 24th. We had several TNG and DS9 story arcs with various competing houses vying for power, starting with the death of K'mpec and the ensuing Klingon Civil War. They're just continuing what was started (most likely) long before the events shown in ENT. The internal battling seen in DISCO is just the natural progression of a culture steeped in warlike tendencies. That kind of society doesn't seem to be able to hold on to any kind of internal peace for very long.

And, to the OP, both!

I am, however, genuinely curious what's going on with the Klingons in PIC right now. I'm thinking the show-runners didn't want to touch that third rail just yet, in light of the rather controversial rebooting of their "look". Going back to Berman-era aesthetics in that regard may inadvertently change the viewers' perception and serve to invalidate what's happened, and what will happen, in DISCO. If we do get a long-requested Worf appearance in S2, however, I have a sneaking suspicion we'll get another "we do not discuss it with outsiders" throwaway line for the further-skewed disparity in Klingon appearance.

 

[FederationHistorian]

Which is inline with continuity from Enterprise that the warrior caste was seeing a growing in power, indicating other segments of the Empire also existed.

It is not a far stretch for me to believe that an interstellar power would have variation in ship design, much less in phenotype.

Just like its not a stretch for me to believe that the loss of their ridges led Klingons to question what a Klingon truly is and the general Klingon identity. And began a period of self reflection and bringing back other aspects of their history they’ve long suppressed or kept hidden away from others, the Federation included. It also permitted cosmetic changes to restore their ridges, in order to prove that one caste or one house was more Klingon than another.

 

[fireproof78]

On a related note, since I've just watched ENT in its entirety, there's something I picked up. There are different factions within the Klingon Empire who aren't on the same page. The Suliban wanted to destabilize the Empire, but it seems as if that destabilization was already on its way to happening anyway. So not only are there different castes, but different wings and different lanes within those castes.

Which ties into the beginning of DSC. Things must've fallen apart shortly after ENT and the Augment Virus probably didn't help matters. So the Klingons were in too much disarray for the next 100 years to be of any threat to Earth or the Federation, which then gave the Federation time to grow.

Exactly. Klingons seem to always been in competition for each other, which fits given what either Kor or Kang hint at in TOS; they have resource poor worlds and must expand in order to survive. But, each faction would be seeing survival in a different way, resulting in many different definitions of being a Klingon...

...oh, great. I just realized that Star Trek fans are Klingons! Trying to define what it means to be Klingon!!!!

 

[JoseNoodles]

Exactly. Klingons seem to always been in competition for each other, which fits given what either Kor or Kang hint at in TOS; they have resource poor worlds and must expand in order to survive. But, each faction would be seeing survival in a different way, resulting in many different definitions of being a Klingon...

...oh, great. I just realized that Star Trek fans are Klingons! Trying to define what it means to be Klingon!!!!

I need no urging to hate humans!

 

[Nyotarules]

How dare Klingons be diverse, why can't they monolithic in phenotype like ....er us???

 

[Tuskin38]

The Klingons in TNG+ were nothing like the Klingons in TOS, and I don't mean just visually. They didn't even act like TOS Klingons.

TOS Klingons didn't have bat'leths or honor or all of that cultural stuff.

TOS Klingons would murder 200 unarmed pacifists, TNG Klingons wouldn't (probably), it would be 'dishonourable'.

 

[Nyotarules]

The Klingons in TNG+ were nothing like the Klingons in TOS, and I don't mean just visually. They didn't even act like TOS Klingons.

TOS Klingons didn't have bat'leths or honor or all of that cultural stuff.

TOS Klingons would murder 100s of unarmed pacifists, TNG Klingons wouldn't (probably), it would be 'dishonourable'.

Sounds like humans, different empires rise and fall, and spread their cultural influence over the planet.

 

[Tuskin38]

I'm just trying to show the parallels between the DSC Klingon changes and how Klingons changed from TOS.

Honestly the DSC Klingons barely changed from TNG (outside of the visuals). They still go on about honour, glory Kahless and dying in battle.

 

[Lord Garth]

Kang was the most like a Modern Klingon. Outside of makeup and age, Kang as a character was virtually unchanged when he appeared on DS9.

Kor, as he was portrayed in "Errand of Mercy", was easily convertible into a Modern Klingon, even though none of his subordinates acted that way. He changed somewhat on DS9, but was still largely recognizable as the same character.

Of the three main TOS Klingons, Koloth is the one who changed the most. Koloth in "The Trouble With Tribbles" was nothing like a Modern Klingon. So they had to change him from the ground up. When he appeared in "Blood Oath" (DS9), it was the same actor but it might as well have been a completely different character.

 

[Nyotarules]

Kang was the most like a Modern Klingon. Outside of makeup and age, Kang as a character was virtually unchanged when he appeared on DS9.

Kor, as he was portrayed in "Errand of Mercy", was easily convertible into a Modern Klingon, even though none of his subordinates acted that way. He changed somewhat on DS9, but was still largely recognizable as the same character.

Of the three main TOS Klingons, Koloth is the one who changed the most. Koloth in "The Trouble With Tribbles" was nothing like a Modern Klingon. So they had to change him from the ground up. When he appeared in "Blood Oath" (DS9), it was the same actor but it might as well have been a completely different character.

It was around 80 years later, some people do mellow with age.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Picard is not prime time, it drops in the wee hours of the morning.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Picard is not prime time, it drops in the wee hours of the morning.

In England we got it at 11pm... I think that's just outside prime time?

 

[The Old Mixer]

The UK is a canon violation!

 

[NCC-73515]

Because the changes between TMP through TNG season 7 were minor. Discovery made them pointy headed with an extreme double layered nose, neck ridges etc.

It’s not just the physical appearances of the Klingons. It’s the ship designs too, which are out of sync with what has been traditionally shown in Star Trek.

Exactly. And the "bat'leth" (twisted ornamental stick) XD

Wait, now there's a distinction between "personal canon" and "head canon"?!? Where will it end???

We need to at least admit heart canon.

Now you're misrepresenting what was said. It was never only eyebrows.

On a show called Star Trek back in the sixties.

then what else is different in the examples you show? what is "alien" and what is "completely human" about them?

 

[fireproof78]

Exactly. And the "bat'leth" (twisted ornamental stick) XD

So there can be no variation?

Sense...this makes none.

 

[Jayson1]

Picard is not prime time, it drops in the wee hours of the morning.

I did quite enjoy watching the show when most of my fellow Trekkers were fast asleep dreaming about the next episode. Made me feel like having a backstage pass or something.


Jason

 

[NCC-73515]

So there can be no variation?

Sense...this makes none.

Look at the original one from Kahless, then the ones from 2150-2370 (which remained the same). A twisted stick doesn't fit between those.
They probably saw Worf's 'aqleH and got confused:
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...ision/latest?cb=20061014101240&path-prefix=en

 

[Lord Garth]

Picard is not prime time, it drops in the wee hours of the morning.

I did quite enjoy watching the show when most of my fellow Trekkers were fast asleep dreaming about the next episode. Made me feel like having a backstage pass or something.

Picard is available in Prime Time in Hawaii. Another reason why Hawaii is the best and I wish I lived there.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

then what else is different in the examples you show? what is "alien" and what is "completely human" about them?

Between the two (skin color and bushy eyebrows), the more alien feature was the skin color, obviously. It was applied for Kor et al. but not for Koloth et al.

But the eyebrows were not negligible. Alien eyebrows were an important component of Vulcan and Romulan make-up, for example.