Spoilers Stranger Things - Season 3

[Mojochi]

You realize a good chunk of this season focused on the sexuality of Mike and Lucas and to some extent Dustin right?

Actually, if there was one aspect of the show I could've done with less of this season, it's that. Frankly, Max was a much more interesting character last season. About the only thing she had going this season beyond being a girlfriend, was a girl's day out with Eleven

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I like how Russian machine gun guy is blatantly styled after Terminator.

 

[Trekker4747]

I like how Russian machine gun guy is blatantly styled after Terminator.

The stuff with him on that front was a little too much for me. Like when Hopper gun him down and he falls and is motionless for a moment before getting up and revealing the bullet proof vest, it was a little too like the T-100 being gunned down in a similar fashion in front of the discotech in the Terminator. Of all of the 80s references the show's done and this season did, that one was a bit heavy.

 

[Mojochi]

You know, I've been rewatching some today, & getting to see the scene where Mike says "It's not my fault you don't like girls", Honestly? in the context of the full discussion, it's not about sexuality at all imho, because the gist of the rest of the conversation is that Will hasn't developed romantic interests in anyone, unlike the others, & the unrest between them stems from that, that those new interests are pulling them away from one another

"What did you think, really? That we were never going to get girlfriends, that we were just going to sit in my basement & play games for the rest of our lives?"
"Yeah. I guess I did. I really did."

That whole conversation is about coming of age growing pains, not sexual identity stuff, that Will is still in a childhood bubble that hadn't allowed for these new interests, of the others, to affect change in their dynamic (Possibly because he's stunted some, from having had much more trauma than they've had, or maybe because he's just developmentally different)

Looking any deeper, at this point, into the meaning of a teenager's specific turn of phrase, for subtle winks about sexuality, is a reach imho

 

[Vger23]

I thought it was fucking great, as usual. I'd put it just below the first season in terms of my enjoyment (I've loved all 3 seasons)


Sometimes I think people take shit too seriously or try to derive meaning and messaging from something that's designed to simply be entertaining.

 

[Trekker4747]

Yeah. at first I was putting it "last" in the ranking of the seasons, but thinking it over it works better for me than the second season, especially with Elle in it more with the rest of the group instead of being separated from everything all season, and we didn't have that little Elle-centric diversion into a boring episode. Also the look and '80s dynamic in it is more "my" memory of the 80s since it's around the time I was in grade-school, old enough to form solid memories and some of the more memorable and obvious aspects of the 80s started showing up.

 

[jaime]

Will being gay, or not being gay isn't a major or minor plot point, it's a character trait. Same for the other boys all being straight. How relevant that trait is depends entirely on the narrative.
Now, such a character trait can certainly inform a plot point, like say Mike and Eleven's make-out fixation being a sore spot for Hopper, or Dustin (last seen repeatedly striking out on the dance floor) finding a girlfriend at science camp. But then these are hardly the only things that matter about these characters.

If for the sake of argument Will is gay then what difference would it really make? I mean besides adding an extra layer of depth to his feelings of isolation and "otherness", even among childhood friends, re-contextualising what we've seen of his family dynamic and give him something other than being "the victim" to set him apart from the other kids. Oh and representation for all the gay kids out there who could benefit from knowing they're not the only ones...yeah, it wouldn't make any difference at all.



Personally I get the feeling "queer" is sometimes like the n-word of non heterosexuals. As in it's a slur that's been reclaimed and can be used freely amongst them, but if you're *not* a part of that world then you should probably think twice before using it.

The only reason I think it'd be easier to use it more generally is mostly out of my own laziness. I mean "LGBTQ+" doesn't exactly roll off the tongue so well and all it's basically doing is trying to encompass everyone that isn't cis gendered herterosexual, which "queer" kinda already does. But then we run into the "it used to be much more of a slur" issue and we're back to hard to pronounce initialisms

They teach Queer Theory in universities. It’s probably not the N word of sexuality.

 

[jaime]

Did anyone else get the feeling of "we spent a lot of money on THAT set so we are gonna use it as much as possible"

I did like Chekhovs convertible.

 

[Vger23]

Yeah. at first I was putting it "last" in the ranking of the seasons, but thinking it over it works better for me than the second season, especially with Elle in it more with the rest of the group instead of being separated from everything all season, and we didn't have that little Elle-centric diversion into a boring episode. Also the look and '80s dynamic in it is more "my" memory of the 80s since it's around the time I was in grade-school, old enough to form solid memories and some of the more memorable and obvious aspects of the 80s started showing up.

That's precisely what puts it above S2 for me as well. I wasn't huge on the Elle side-plot with the gang in S2.

 

[Mojochi]

I still think it falls a little behind season 2, but not by much, & mostly because some of the 80s references & casting were a little too much, specifically Cary Elwes & Jake Busey. Compared to Paul Reiser & Sean Astin in season too? It doesn't hold a candle. Those two just MADE season two

But on a second viewing, you know who really made season 3, more than they have in either of the other seasons? Joyce & Hopper. They carry the heavy load of that season, & really more than ever make themselves known as the series leads. The other real gem of season 3 is Steve & Robin. They just really suck you in, with being wonderfully entertaining.

So where some of the stunt casting fell a little short for me, some of the regulars & previously ancillary players, like Murray Bauman, really stepped up to make the season work almost as well as any other. I only just discovered that Robin is played by Uma Thurman & Ethan Hawke's daughter Maya. She has Ethan's eyes & Uma's smile & the charisma of both. She's something special

The fact is, they have exceptional talent on the show. Gaten Matarazzo, Caleb McLaughlin & Sadie Sink were all known to one another & working Broadway productions before coming to this show. That's the level of talent you're looking at here. Even the children are more skilled at their craft than most adults

 

[Vger23]

I still think it falls a little behind season 2, but not by much, & mostly because some of the 80s references & casting were a little too much, specifically Cary Elwes & Jake Busey. Compared to Paul Reiser & Sean Astin in season too? It doesn't hold a candle. Those two just MADE season two

But on a second viewing, you know who really made season 3, more than they have in either of the other seasons? Joyce & Hopper. They carry the heavy load of that season, & really more than ever make themselves known as the series leads. The other real gem of season 3 is Steve & Robin. They just really suck you in, with being wonderfully entertaining.

So where some of the stunt casting fell a little short for me, some of the regulars & previously ancillary players, like Murray Bauman, really stepped up to make the season work almost as well as any other. I only just discovered that Robin is played by Uma Thurman & Ethan Hawke's daughter Maya. She has Ethan's eyes & Uma's smile & the charisma of both. She's something special

The fact is, they have exceptional talent on the show. Gaten Matarazzo, Caleb McLaughlin & Sadie Sink were all known to one another & working Broadway productions before coming to this show. That's the level of talent you're looking at here. Even the children are more skilled at their craft than most adults

Yeah, Robin and Steve were great in this season.

 

[theenglish]

I agree that Will at this point is just developing a little slower than his friends.

One eighties phrase the show has omitted, deliberately I think, is using the term gay as a perjorative for anything that is boring or dull. "That is so gay." The discussion in this thread made me realize that.

 

[Awesome Possum]

I agree that Will at this point is just developing a little slower than his friends.

One eighties phrase the show has omitted, deliberately I think, is using the term gay as a perjorative for anything that is boring or dull. "That is so gay." The discussion in this thread made me realize that.

Was that an 80s thing? I remember it being more of a thing in the late 90s and early to mid 00s. It stopped when people realized it was fucked up.

 

[Vger23]

Was that an 80s thing? I remember it being more of a thing in the late 90s and early to mid 00s. It stopped when people realized it was fucked up.

I think it was an 80s and 90s thing. Much like the term "retarded," it was used as a popular "negative colloquialism" until people started to understand how offensive/immature/insensitive it was.

I believe both usages have died out pretty significantly

 

[Jayson1]

gay and retarded were mostly 90's. fag was more 80's. Many of the terms were very mean spirited io 80's. Time the 90's came around they deevolved into general slanq except with the hardcore bigots of course. Jason

 

[JirinPanthosa]

This conversation is making me think of the South Park episode where they call a bunch of inconsiderate Harley riders the f word and then have to clarify they aren't taking about gay people, they're talking about inconsiderate loud motorcycle riders.

Yesterday watched the episode that ends in the hospital with the newspaper guys. That's what the horror genre should be, not a just a lot of startles, evil spirits, and disposable characters being disposed.

 

[Trekker4747]

Reminds me of a Louis CK bit.

 

[theenglish]

It is amazing and a little embarassing to think about the slang words we used as kids thinking those words were less wrong than swear words. I didnt use any of those words very much, but I know that I must have on occasion.

It was a good move on the part of the writers to leave a lot of the dated negative elements out. This is meant to be the version of the eighties we know from the movies...kind of how Happy Days treated the 50s. Somewhat idealized.

I just started reading IT for the first time and it really threw me back to just how problematic was. The novel opens with the killing of a gay man and the cops interrogating the killers use pretty awful slang and attitude freely without shame.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

^ I admit I had to wean myself off describing things as "retarded" at one point years ago.

Going totally off on a tangent, I saw Django Unchained on basic cable last night and they censored all the n-words and it was rather surreal (as were the digital briefs they added to Jamie Foxx for modesty).

 

[jaime]

^ I admit I had to wean myself off describing things as "retarded" at one point years ago.

Going totally off on a tangent, I saw Django Unchained on basic cable last night and they censored all the n-words and it was rather surreal (as were the digital briefs they added to Jamie Foxx for modesty).

There was a big hoo has about describing things as gay a few years back....gay doctor Who writer RTD had a character say it. (It was popular late nineties, look at Kevin Smith films, but there he labels it as passive aggressive homophobia and a bit of repression even there) Much of the problem with the argument was..well, gay had already changed meaning once (minimum) and was basically changing again. There were sort of..territorial disputes over ownership of the word (if some one gay uses the word gay as a means of describing something crap, what does it even mean anymore?) and it all sort of faded away.
Interestingly, this never happens with queer.
Also interestingly, much earlier, we used to use the word ‘naf’ to mean something was crap, and that came from theatre-speech and Polari, and was basically a gay community slang word meaning ‘straight’ (aka hetero) before crossing into mainstream use to mean crap.
So...to say it all got confusing as heck but is nonetheless interesting if you are interested in words and language is an understatement.
Me? I enjoy being British in international forums, though am back on the vaping so can no longer cause a furore by saying I am going out for a fag and watching heads spin. And the BBC ruined faggots for me as a meal option too.

We are truly two nations separated by one language and a big ocean.