when did TOS take place, 23rd century or 22nd century

[cooleddie74]

Was Eugenics development by humans or by visiting aliens from Omega IV? Earlier, did they provide Thomas Jefferson and the founding fathers with crazy ideas like, "We the People..." or the holy words, "Ee'd Plebnista..." The same group of Omegaens could be responsible since they live for 1000+ years.

I both like where this is heading and absolutely hate it.

 

[BK613]

I both like where this is heading and absolutely hate it.

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[Timo]

Instead of just a duplicate Earth, are we to assume that the entire Sol solar system was also duplicated, too. That's even more impressive to whip up. Still easier for a spacial anomaly to shift the solar system between universes. Now, was it natural or alien-created spacial anomaly; a bigger version of that which occurred to the Defiant?

The heroes first express surprise when studying the parallel Earth, not yet when entering the system... That they'd already be deep in the system is suggested by Farrell trying to have a dialogue with the radio transmitter, thus supposedly at lightspeed.

Might be an entire duplicate Sol system nevertheless, with the Other Earth at the #3 slot as usual. But I'd think the heroes would be more impressed by the Other Saturn, supposedly a rare beauty in the cosmic scale... That is, if they bothered to take a look at the Other #6 at all, and we know they aren't really in the habit of doing so. If they only entered this system to study the mystery SOS, they'd probably fly in wearing the same blinders as Captain Terrell a couple of decades later.

(Interesting that Kirk says they're "hundreds" of lightyears from the real Earth, and thus well outside the colony and outpost regions. Rather direct proof for the small UFP model there!)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mytran]

Indeed - it's not the parallel culture of human-like aliens that are shock, it's the planet itself with all the continents etc.

 

[Gabriel]

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You know even though I wasn’t even born when this was around, and is very dated, I still like it better than the new one because the only thing i don’t like about the old series is that the uniforms weren’t very good. But I don’t watch show just because I lie the uniform. Don’t get me wrong I like the new one but no as much as the old one.

 

[BK613]

The heroes first express surprise when studying the parallel Earth, not yet when entering the system... That they'd already be deep in the system is suggested by Farrell trying to have a dialogue with the radio transmitter, thus supposedly at lightspeed.

Might be an entire duplicate Sol system nevertheless, with the Other Earth at the #3 slot as usual. But I'd think the heroes would be more impressed by the Other Saturn, supposedly a rare beauty in the cosmic scale... That is, if they bothered to take a look at the Other #6 at all, and we know they aren't really in the habit of doing so. If they only entered this system to study the mystery SOS, they'd probably fly in wearing the same blinders as Captain Terrell a couple of decades later.

(Interesting that Kirk says they're "hundreds" of lightyears from the real Earth, and thus well outside the colony and outpost regions. Rather direct proof for the small UFP model there!)

Timo Saloniemi

Of course, given what we now think we know about the Solar System's formation (Theia, Grand tack, etc), Earth II might need all the Solar System duplicated to exist naturally.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Of course, given what we now think we know about the Solar System's formation (Theia, Grand tack, etc), Earth II might need all the Solar System duplicated to exist naturally.

Agreed. Everything would have to the same to make a duplicate Earth, including factors driven by random events. That's why I like the idea that Miri's world was Earth in a parallel universe, and it fell into our universe through some science-double-talk event.

Star Trek was still new when they filmed "Miri," and still somewhat influenced by The Twilight Zone. "Charlie X" is a lot like "It's a Good Life," for instance. And Miri's planet being so like Earth is exactly the kind of mysterious, how-did-that-happen thing TZ would do.

 

[BK613]

Agreed. Everything would have to the same to make a duplicate Earth, including factors driven by random events.

And you find that you keep zooming out. I mean, in order for there to be a duplicate SS, you need a duplicate star-forming region to birth it, etc.

That's why I like the idea that Miri's world was Earth in a parallel universe, and it fell into our universe through some science-double-talk event.

Agree.

 

[Timo]

Then again, we could easily choose to drop the "natural" bit, considering how little role nature seems to play in Trek events.

Which is sort of expected: the Milky Way is full of intellect, most of it millions if not billions of years older than the human sort. Why would these clever elders leave anything at all to nature or chance?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[uniderth]

Here's a thought. What if Earth II and its solar system were some sort of quantum entangled replication system. So instead of being from a parallel universe it was just an exact copy. Then at some point the entanglement was broken or ended.

Disclaimer: I know next to nothing about quantum entanglement, but it sounds sciency enough to be true.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Star Trek was still new when they filmed "Miri," and still somewhat influenced by The Twilight Zone. "Charlie X" is a lot like "It's a Good Life," for instance. And Miri's planet being so like Earth is exactly the kind of mysterious, how-did-that-happen thing TZ would do.

Yeah. I wouldn't mind seeing an alternate TOS story that follows that teaser, one that actually explains the big question posed at the end of it: Where did that duplicate Earth come from? I'd find that a lot more interesting than the "mysterious disease that killed off all of the adults" story that "Miri" turned out to be.

 

[STEPhon IT]

I don't think Miri is relevant to the discussion. Consider the other planets that were Earth parallels, like the Romans of the "20 century" or the US Constitution that's over a thousand years old. Just because the culture had an Earth analog doesn't mean the timelines matched.

THANK YOU!!! It could not possibly match based on what I know about time and the distances of other worlds in our solar system and beyond. Earth time is dictated by it traveling around the Sun, Miri Earth is from another system, just like Gothos!

 

[johnnybear]

The thing is if we do eventually go to the stars and find duplicate earths with cultures similar or even the same as those in our past will we drop the hate thread against such episodes?
JB

 

[Nerys Myk]

The thing is if we do eventually go to the stars and find duplicate earths with cultures similar or even the same as those in our past will we drop the hate thread against such episodes?
JB

Of all the things we may find in space, that is the most unlikely.

 

[Christopher]

Here's a thought. What if Earth II and its solar system were some sort of quantum entangled replication system. So instead of being from a parallel universe it was just an exact copy. Then at some point the entanglement was broken or ended.

Disclaimer: I know next to nothing about quantum entanglement, but it sounds sciency enough to be true.

That's not what those words mean.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

THANK YOU!!! It could not possibly match based on what I know about time and the distances of other worlds in our solar system and beyond. Earth time is dictated by it traveling around the Sun, Miri Earth is from another system, just like Gothos!

I'd just like to say that Gothos was a rogue planet with no sun. It was traveling through space on its own, and Trelane could propel it at high warp speed. And incidentally, this renders the "900 light years" info meaningless, because Trelane could have easily observed the Earth from close up, and then departed for the distant reaches where the Enterprise eventually found him.

 

[uniderth]

That's not what those words mean.

As noted in the disclaimer.

 

[Christopher]

As noted in the disclaimer.

Not really. It's not "sciencey enough to be true," it's utterly meaningless.

 

[Henoch]

I'd just like to say that Gothos was a rogue planet with no sun. It was traveling through space on its own, and Trelane could propel it at high warp speed. And incidentally, this renders the "900 light years" info meaningless, because Trelane could have easily observed the Earth from close up, and then departed for the distant reaches where the Enterprise eventually found him.

Most dialog indicate that Gothos was a rogue planet, but during the escape attempt we get this dialog:

KIRK: Not yet. They may trace our beam. Wait until we're well out of range.
SPOCK: Can we know his range is, Captain?
KIRK: We can take an educated guess. At the point we entered their solar system.
UHURA: Still no sign of pursuit. Instruments clear, sir.​

Why does Kirk mention a solar system which by definition must have a sun? It seems that the Enterprise was traveling through/near this solar system, then the rogue planet Gothos shows up where no planet was on record to exist. Spock says the sensors show that it just "appeared" on his scans:

SPOCK: Unusual, Captain. I'm now getting a sizable space-displacement reading.
KIRK: Can you verify that, Navigator?
DESALLE: No, sir. Forward sweeps are negative. Wait. Verified, sir. We must be in some sort of light warp or we'd have picked it up earlier.
KIRK: Put it on visual.
(A purple globe appears on the viewscreen)
DESALLE: Iron-silica body, planet sized, magnitude one E. We'll be passing close.
SPOCK: Inconceivable this body has gone unnoted on all our records.​

Later in the escape, Gothos didn't just move fast to block the Enterprise, rather it magically appeared in front of them. I think it more likely that Trelane teleported the planet. I admit the Enterprise was not at warp speed, yet, so maybe the planet was using warp speed to jump in front of the Enterprise. YMMV

 

[johnnybear]

Obviously Trelane wasn't allowed to visit earth by his parents!
So was forced to observe the planet from far away!
JB