Spoilers Avengers: Endgame grade and discussion thread

Is it weird that I'm just now noticing that despite always being the closest of friends that in every movie they're in together (with the exception of AoU) , Black Widow & Hawkeye always end up getting into a fight?

Plus of course they did meet because Fury sent Barton to kill Nat, so start as you mean to go on, I guess!

 

After all that, click the glove again.

 

Oh, damn, I never noticed that either, although I'm blanking on when they fought each other in Age of Ultron.

 

It was terrible. It made no damn sense and was actually insulting to anyone with a functioning attention span. Seldom has a movie made me this damn angry. Man, what a waste of time. This movie is the fucking worst.

 

The problem is that it makes no sense. They destroyed their own plot by having him steal the Tesseract and not changing anything after that. It's ridiculous. None of the other movies would have happened, and their little hand-wave about past and future - you know, where they spout bullshit nonsense and then make a dumb joke as a distraction - does not excuse the utter absence of logic. This movie is so, so stupid. I'm willing to give time travel stories the benefit of the doubt, but this? It's completely idiotic. They were so caught up in creating cool scenes that they forgot to actually write a coherent story.

 

If they take their cue from the comics, the Hulk personality is only buried and if the merged Hulk gets too angry, he reverts to the Bruce body but with dumb Hulk's mind.

 

Cool -- didn't think to try again. Thanks!

 

It made sense.
Think more TNG's "Parallels" instead of standard time travel movie.

 

"To feel so desperately that you're right, yet to fail nonetheless. It’s frightening. Turns the legs to jelly. I ask you, to what end? Dread it. Run from it. Destiny arrives all the same."

Said by Thanos but fits his own fate in Endgame...

 

I can't. I'm sorry. It made zero sense to me. The NY scene destroyed the plot.

 

What angered me was the stupidity of the plot and how out of character some of them were...all for the sake of gimmicks. It made no sense. No sense.

But seriously, good if people liked it. I just can't.

 

https://www.thewrap.com/avengers-en...merica-scene-makes-no-sense-peggy-carter/amp/
Good summary of everything wrong with Captain America ending scene. It’s not all bad, but it’s not great.

 

Saw it today and i enjoyed it...
Loved the female empowerment an agency stuff in the movie...
But there are 3 plot-holes\loose threads unanswered though...

Spoiler: Plotholes

1. Tony and Scotts failure happened before Steve got the sceptre so returning that gem right after that wont turn that back?
2. How do you return the soul stone?
3. How did past-Nebula get Thanos' ship through the portal if she used the return batch of Pym-particles for herself?

 

A-

It was pretty good for the most part. I laughed, I teared up, I cheered, and at the end I felt numb.

I'm a sucker for happy endings, but this finale didn't end the way I expected... or wanted. This was Avengers Disassembled. While those who were initially wiped out in the Snap were brought back to the present, two of the founding members and best characters died. A different version of Gamora who knew nothing of the Guardians of the Galaxy was now part of their universe. In the end, Captain America went back to the past and "got a life," but wouldn't that have altered events as well?

I liked the nods to the previous films, such as Steve Rogers riding the elevator with Hydra operatives ("Hail Hydra"), and the dozens of supporting characters (The Ancient One, Howard Stark, General Thunderbolt Ross, Frigga) that not only felt nostalgic but also made this an epic film.

Oh I did love Tony's and Scott's comments on Captain America's ass.

 

What do you mean you can't? Do you generally struggle with science fiction plots? (Serious question, it could be a thing)

 

I'd like to see what went down when Cap took the Soul Stone back and found out who its keeper was.

 

Oops I ate my post.

Film was epic! It was funny, whilst also tense. The running time flew right by.

The scene where the disappeared Avengers reappeared, was an awesome moment! I knew they were all going to come back being as the majority of them have sequel films coming up. The way the film built up to the moment was done wonderfully, though.

I was happy to see Captain America have a sweet ending with Peggy in the past. Maybe it didn't totally make sense, but it hit the right emotional notes.

Iron Man dying, man, now that was bittersweet. I knew there were going to be casualties, but it still got me. His funeral with everybody that was left there was touching.

Black Widow dying was a surprising one - she has a film coming up, doesn't she? I guess it's a prequel?

I can't wait to see it again. I haven't seen Captain Marvel yet so hopefully I'll see that, and watch the Infinity War before I jump back into it.

I did a massive Marvel rewatch last year before Infinity War came out, and that was epic enough. The way things have played out have made we want to do it again!

 

Yeah the movie was pretty upfront about changes made in the past do not affect the present (Tony even name-drops David Deutsch, a proponent of the many-worlds interpretation of quantum theory) because each change essentially exists as a divergent reality, which the Ancient One laid out fairly explicitly.

The only real problem with this is how Steve living out his life in *this* reality seems to show-how circumvent it. If we follow the logic of the rest of the movie, the reality he lived out his life in should be a different one from the one he left because as it stands, it creates a predestination paradox. If he has always been Peggy's unseen husband then it means that Thanos's defeat was always inevitable...so why when Strange looked into 14 million possible futures was there only one where this was true? it should have been all 14 million.
The only way I can see around it is that this wasn't *our* Cap, but a near identical one from a nearly identical universe that returned the stones to our reality after defeating Thanos in his reality and is in-turn replaced by another and so on and so forth while *our* Steve lives out a very similar, near identical life in yet another reality, all in a vast but still finite loop. 14 million after all, is nothing next to infinity, so it stands to reason a large yet finite number of realities beat the odds and destroyed Thanos.


While we're on the subject of quantum physics, I'm pretty sure this movie proves that Nebula somehow has a quantum computer of some sort as part of her cybernetic brain. It explains why both of her selves freaked out and crossed memory paths. All those pairs of entangled particles suddenly found themselves in a quartet, all trying to be in different spin states. Talk about some nasty brain feedback!