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Beloved episodes you hate/Reviled episodes you love

Jim Of Seattle

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Red Shirt
Bravery required in this thread!

Who dares to admit reviled episodes they secretly love and/or beloved episodes they secretly hate?

My least favorite beloved episodes:
The Menagerie - So boring, major logic hole I can't get past
Arena - Silly
I, Mudd - Cringe-ingly smug

My favorite reviled episodes:
Spock's Brain - Bad ST, but it would be a pretty cool episode from some lesser SF series of the day. And... NOT BORING!
Turnabout Intruder - I guess I tend to not let things like sexism bug me - it was a different time
 
I do not enjoy The Enterprise Incident; it's silly and boring. Even watching the first time, did anyone really think Spock killed Kirk? Oof.

I am also a big Spock's Brain fan. It's enormously entertaining.
 
I think the "City on the Edge of Forever" is hugely overrated. It's a good enough episode of anthology television, and could easily be an episode of the Twilight Zone with minor changes, but I don't think it's the best example of Star Trek. I think The Corbomite Maneuver is.

I think "Spock's Brain" is a load of fun, and gets a bad rap as the "worst ever" episode. I think there are much worse episodes, like the mess that is The Alternative Factor, or episodes like And the Children Shall Lead, which the cast seems to be almost sleepwalking through.

I find "Plato's Stepchildren" alternates between cringey and disturbing in its sadism, and all the commentary about That Famous Kiss always struck me as odd because *they are being forced* ... and the fact that it wasn't actually the first.

I never found The "Trouble With Tribbles" terribly funny, or at least as uproariously funny as some people do. Truth be told, I enjoy the DS9 sequel more. That one makes me chuckle, mostly for the gags revolving around the period look of TOS.

I *like* "The Omega Glory." Yes, it's really on the nose with the allegory, but I have always liked the message that patriotism is empty tribalism unless you adhere to the actual ideals of equal rights and liberty.

I *like* "The Way To Eden." Yes, it's dated and confusing, and not very strong on plot, but COME ON: SPOCK IS JAMMING WITH A GIRL PLAYING A BICYCLE WHEEL
 
Numerous Trekkers love The Trouble With Tribbles...I don’t despise it, but it’s not my fave episode.

Even Bob Justman thought Spock’s Brain was horrible; however I really enjoy it even though the ending was a letdown.
 
I'm with you on Way to Eden. There are so many different ways an episode might be considered "bad". Alternative Factor, And the Children Shall Lead and Way to Eden could all be considered bad, but they're bad for different reasons. One criteria I sometimes think of is I ask myself "Can I conceive of a time when our tastes/mores/values/aesthetics etc will have changed so that this episode would seem good?" I think that's a valuable lens to hold up to a lot of episodes, including Eden and Turnabout. But if people just behave contrary to basic logic, then no amount of cultural shift underneath will ever make it work.
 
I used to adore "The Changling" (TOS) as a kid. So much action... a big scary threat is one thing, but there's no way a kid can understand the sexist bits, the scribbled out stuff about a Nomad bolt being more powerful than 90 torpedoes and unique to this week the Enterprise can withstand multiple volleys of those... or the magic behind Scotty being revived on cue. Yeah, Kirk nagging the thing to self-destruct is entertaining but ST: TMP took the same concept of a machine made malevolent by accident after finding a satellite and trying to learn from it (woopsie!) far, far, far better.

"I, Mudd" I used to think was the bees' knees. Now it's just cheese. Mudd was wasted potential, he had more a palpable threat in "Mudd's Women". All the themes are taken too lightly but at least it's cheese with too tight sweatpants and shower curtains. But an episode of throwaway one-liners and moronic eye-candy, what is this - daytime talk TV? Worse, it resorts to Batman-style camp with rubbish like "beads and rattles". Long before the zoom in and out red alert light was featured in LTBYLB (which was an interesting stylistic change that wasn't all that bad...)

"The Trouble with Tribbles" - similarly overrated and forces the comedy a bit much. I don't overtly hate it, but I don't love it as much as I used to. Having said that, it is well written, well structured as a story, and the humor builds up instead of being a hammer-on-the-head-funny every 20 seconds.

"The Way to Eden" I now adore. At least for potential and basic premise and what could have been. Ditto for "Turnabout Intruder", if the writing were more polished. Both episodes have some great acting despite it all. As a kid, both were bland, but "Intrudcer" had the psychological appeal. Get rid of the sexist stuff and focus solely on Dr Lester's insanity and the episode wouldn't be so reviled. Yes, 1969, Roddenberry allegedly wrote it to attack any number of vectors, but it didn't quite work.

And "Eden" was shown well past its topical sell-by date. Now if we had today's youth trying to be hippies, the story might work better. Or even a rewrite would make it an allegory on whatever disease of the week strikes one's fancy, based on Dr Sevrin's character.

"Plato's Stepchildren" is a high concept horror show, with one of Trek's all time best interchanges - between Kirk and Alexander. Also loved it because it's creepy as hell. Though keep in mind the UK did an interracial kiss years before the US, and without using coerced sexual assault from the Platonians onto Kirk and Uhura as a plot device. People love quoting the scene but have they actually watched the thing?! /rhetoricalquestiongiventheobviousonlyanswer

"City on the Edge of Forever" is good but an overrated misfire, possibly due to script rewrites that Harlan had no control over. The premise is there. Given the context of the 1960s and TV censorship, it's earned some just due accolades on its own. But at the same time, 1967 or not, had the episode really hit it home that a pacifist had to die in order to prevent Hitler from winning... but she's just splattered in some, as they say, rando crash. They had no guts, pardon the pun, to really dig into the temporal deviance and intellectual paradox.

"Who Mourns for Adonis" - never liked it as a young kid as nothing really happened and a big hand in space... meh. As an adult, I appreciate more the special effects (especially with picnic table placement for Apollo growing and yet Lt Palamas wasn't trying to look up), there's some lovely eye candy for all, and for once the writers are getting beyond "the big three" by having Spock cite Uhura's importance. It's still not much of an episode, but those little set pieces - and the show was deemed made for adults back in the day, not kids - elevate and add much more than what I would have fathomed as a kid. Still, season one by far has the most bits and set pieces for anyone who's not the big three.

"Gamesters of Triskeleon" - mediocre as a kid - "Oh look, they're fighting but those glowing collars are cool so why isn't KMart selling them". And I laughed at other shows using either the token stock fight music, and/or Triskeleon logo, as an in-joke in the way audiences are supposed to. As an adult, apart from too many unnecessary jokes involving Jiffy Time stove top Popcorn, what makes me love the episode - apart from some nuanced scenes (Margaret Armen was a fantastic addition to the writers' team) - the discussion of slavery (thralls) does hold enough weight. Though if Kirk would beam up Alexander, why not do so for Shahna? Kirk had to side with his ship but he did genuinely love her, which is a rare side of Kirk as usually he's wham-bam-then-warp-eight-how-great. Missed opportunity, but it's the only real misfire in the episode.
 
I do not enjoy The Enterprise Incident; it's silly and boring. Even watching the first time, did anyone really think Spock killed Kirk? Oof.

I am also a big Spock's Brain fan. It's enormously entertaining.

If they remade it today, it'd become a dance number. Makes ya think. If done in 1968 they'd license the following song and have interludes... like this one:





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I'm not getting all the shade being thrown on City...Forever. I mean, what do you want, wicker? It doesn't seem fair to knock an episode for not being what it was before rewrites. (John Steinbeck wrote the first draft of Mirror, Mirror and by the time it got to a shooting script, the Joads were completely written out.) Sure, it could have been a lot more, but it sure as hell could have been a lot less.
 
The Omega Glory is an episode that I like a lot! It was the first episode I ever taped from the TV and it was the View Master released episode in the seventies! I do enjoy the lost Starship episodes for some reason and I'm not swayed by the reading of the constitution by Cloud William or Kirk!
The Alternative Factor is not an episode that I hate and it has some interesting points to make. Although the BBC transmission of 1981 is deeply confusing after all the cuts they made to it! :wtf:
And The Children Shall Lead is another show that many hate and I like! Okay it's not brilliant but Gorgon is very creepy and when he decays at the end I recall many a night covered up in my blankets in bed! :crazy: The advancing swords on the screen to scare Sulu are a bit much but Uhura's aging is also pretty worrying until we find out it's just an hallucination!:techman:
JB
 
When my family was into TOS but I was not yet of the body, I remember watching Omega Glory with my dad, who wasn't a big ST fan, but really loved that one. I saw it later, once I was of the body, and found it way too flag wavy. Plus I have such a hard time with episodes in which obviously struggling LA actors get roped in to play villagers - poorly (I'm looking at you, The Apple/Friday's Child).

Given that it was one of the first episodes dreamed up, along with some of the best early Season 1 episodes, makes me want to revisit it, but... I just....just.... CAN'T.

johnnybear Please sell us on Alternative Factor.
 
I'm not getting all the shade being thrown on City...Forever. I mean, what do you want, wicker? It doesn't seem fair to knock an episode for not being what it was before rewrites. (John Steinbeck wrote the first draft of Mirror, Mirror and by the time it got to a shooting script, the Joads were completely written out.) Sure, it could have been a lot more, but it sure as hell could have been a lot less.
John Steinbeck? :confused:

Kor
 
I like it, too. The acting by Shatner and Sandra Smith was great. If anyone switched bodies with me, boy, are they in for a disappointment!
I do as well. Smith and Shatner did fantastic. The crew deliberatey disobeying Lester (In Kirk's Body) was the highlight for me and watching him/her lose it.
 
I've got a soft spot in my heart for "Spock's Brain", sure it's dumb but it's fun-dumb. Besides, where else can you see the gang wearing shock-collar, chastity belts?
 
I can’t stand The Trouble with Tribbles. It's not half as funny and clever as it thinks it is.

Mirror, Mirror and the universe where everyone has an exact twin who's evil is fine as a goofy one shot, but I don't see why every series since feels compelled to do a Mirror episode. It's as silly as Spock's Brain.

I like a lot about the Menagerie, but the idea that the beep beep chair is the best that can be done for Pike is ridiculous to me. I really wish Discovery hadn't doubled down on that.

I like the Savage Curtain and Way to Eden. Kirk and Lincoln, Spock and space hippies - just entertains me.
 
I hate Obsession. I don't believe Kirk would act like that, no matter how guilty and haunted he felt by his past. Several people die because of his stupidity, and after all that, the conclusion isn't even interesting - the cloud creature must be killed, and they kill it. Great.

Really hate Metamorphosis too, for a number of reasons, but I might not be in the minority on that one.

The Menagerie is pretty boring, I think Discovery's greatest contribution to Star Trek might be in giving that episode a deeper impact by expanding the character of Pike. The framing device is actually really cool, it's just that the whole thing is so transparently an excuse to use footage shot for The Cage, and if you've already seen that then it's a waste of nearly two hours.

As for good episodes, I really like Miri, which seems to be a minority opinion. It's fantastically tense, the kids are creepy, the Grups are genuinely scary and sad, and it's one of the best episodes for Shatner's acting simultaneously being hilariously over the top and fantastically skilled in selling the plot.

Catspaw is awesome too, although completely ridiculous. Loved the giant cat when I was a little kid, obliterated the VHS going back to watch it over and over again.
 
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